So that means they spend billion$ on a known failure? Perhaps the C-Level staff played hooky in Business 101?
Ford CEO Says Large Electric Trucks And SUVs Have 'Unresolvable' Problems
- Thread starter ripcord
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Precisely! No corporation would sit idly by and focus on something else (hydrogen) if they were in possession of superior battery and electric motor tech. Makes no sense at all.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Your argument, in this thread, has been that the BZ4x is crap because of BYD. That article is saying the complete opposite.
You are blaming everything wrong with Toyota's EV's on BYD, however, that article is a completely different view, lol.
Well, that should be interesting to watch then eh? See if they get better?
M
It must be a local thing near you, EV sales at Toyota up over 50% in 2024 Best of any EV car sales in the USA
- "Year-end electrified Toyota and Lexus sales surpasses one million units and surges 53 percent; electrified units make up more than 43 percent of total sales volume"
(maybe the use of the word "electrified" means hybrid too? I dont know but their numbers for 2024 are the envy of the industry in North America)
AS a company, nothing else to sneeze at either =
PLANO, Texas (Jan. 3, 2025) – Toyota Motor North America (TMNA) today reported year-end 2024 U.S. sales of 2,332,623 vehicles, an increase of 3.7 percent on a volume basis and an increase of 3.1 percent on a daily selling rate (DSR) basis compared to 2023."
I doubt you can call this a black eye. If so, then Tesla USA would be considered in the dumpster for 2024 with a sales decline.
I think every industry invests in research and runs with what works, obviously Toyota is doing what works.
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-motor-north-america-reports-2024-u-s-sales-results/
At this point it’s really hard to beat a hybrid for cost of ownership.
I can only assume they are hybrid and such
I agree, however, my response is a reply to someone questioning how they could spend so much money in research and calling their efforts a big black eye
That makes no sense because they are automobile manufacturers so it seems like Toyota is building cars that the public wants.
It’s disingenuous to belittle accompany because they may not fit the criteria of a strict EV and a producing a modified hybrid.
Do we all just create and build strict EVs, and go out of business for the sake of saying electric vehicle?
It’s indisputable that EV sales have flopped and Toyota the company that was always laughed at is exceeding in everything they are doing. Versus other strictly electric vehicle makers who sales have gone down that same year.
With that said, I have no idea nor did I care to try to separate numbers or define if they are talking about electric vehicles or allelectrified vehicles. I suspect electrified.
As usual, don’t take my post wrong just discussing
I just reread your post and I don’t see how calling something electrified is mislabeling. But whatever it works.!
About a year ago, we stopped in to Putnam Lexus, where I have bought 4 cars; 3 new RX450h and 1 used GS350. I asked the sales manager about the be4 or whatever they call it. He told me, "You don't want one."
Toyota's EV business is basically a failure. I suspect they will fare better in the future.
Of course Toyota's overall history is legendary. I love Toyotas. Especially my trusty Tundra. No, it's not for sale.
Gm seems to have built the EV truck Ford couldn't - because Ford didnt take the time to do it from the ground up, Now is GM making money on it, not yet. Yeah Jim Farley- it's hard to do and make money on and physics cant be overcome.
Is it indisputable EV sales have "flopped" or is it just not growing as fast as it was?
I'm pretty sure the segment is still growing.
Toyota doenst need need to lead in Ev's to run a great business - but the question is who will?
Toyota has certainly ceded this particular crown - do they care probably not, do the readers here care who leads in Ev's probably not but someone will.
What Toyota rightfully should get laughed at over his their inability to meet their own battery roadmap claims and their initial effort in the space.
Does anyone watch Electric Trucker youtube channel?
youtube.com/@elektrotrucker
I've been surprised at the state of maturity. Brand-name trucks you can buy now, with 750,000 mile battery warranties, 300+ mile ranges while hauling 40 tons, fast recharging using a standard CCS2 connector (which apparently supports up to 350kW). There are definitely some new-tech issues and he highlights those but apparently once trucking companies realized they could perfectly predict their fuel costs, they are snapping them up. There are some other videos featuring diesel-electric hybrid trucks and even trucks with overhead wires to recharge the batteries, but apparently full-battery trucks are turning out to be the best. I would have put my money on some kind of hybrid.
youtube.com/@elektrotrucker
I've been surprised at the state of maturity. Brand-name trucks you can buy now, with 750,000 mile battery warranties, 300+ mile ranges while hauling 40 tons, fast recharging using a standard CCS2 connector (which apparently supports up to 350kW). There are definitely some new-tech issues and he highlights those but apparently once trucking companies realized they could perfectly predict their fuel costs, they are snapping them up. There are some other videos featuring diesel-electric hybrid trucks and even trucks with overhead wires to recharge the batteries, but apparently full-battery trucks are turning out to be the best. I would have put my money on some kind of hybrid.
You're right. Personally, I have a bias against Chinese products in that almost everything I see coming from there is built cheap to sell cheap and a lot of their products don't last. Furthermore, they like to lie about specifications and performance capabilities.
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On this topic I'm referring specifically to an earlier list that called hybrids "Ev's".
I recall the held view being that's misleading and in an ideal world hybrids would be called out as such and EV's (or Bev's) kept separate.
You specifically had an issue with combining these two, and I agreed with you calling this combining sloppy data work.
All good!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, I'm no fan of their stuff myself, but I thought it interesting how the article went the complete opposite direction on that subject.
GM’s big LFP truck packs are coming soon at around 150kWh and 350 miles range. It’ll be interesting how much cost they can cut. The initial estimates are over $6,000/pack beyond the lower 2025 pack costs. My guess is the Suburban/Tahoe EVs will need this pack to keep MSRP down.
What'd be just as cool as a cheap battery is a modern structural battery with an allloy housing and frame.
If the Y V blazer has 1000LB diff one would think the general could work some of its frame magic and alloy up the trucks - 1000+lb lighter makes a big difference.
Ford's attitude strikes me as defeatist. There are already electric semis from several companies and electric airplanes. Getting better and cheaper all the time. Also there's the large Blazer EV and Kia EV9 that make it work somehow.
I think this might really be a complaint about tariffs.
I think this might really be a complaint about tariffs.
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I agree, My conversation with Jeff as far as Toyotas success got mixed into this. My point to him was no one can dispute Toyotas success in 2024 vs failures of strictly EV models.
I do have to say as a cynic that mislabeling by the media is prevalent. Toyota seems to carefully have chosen the words "electrified" which can be seen as accurate if they themselves report that as a division.
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