Ford CEO Says Large Electric Trucks And SUVs Have 'Unresolvable' Problems

[demarpaint]

Also remember, the jury is still out of Tesla. NOT that I think they will turn into a nothing company. But they have a long way to go to prove themselves. They have only been profitable for a couple years and last year, they have almost stagnant world wide sales and declining profit margins. I dont know, I do not think I am being negative to call them out on this. They are a new young company, not exactly on solid footing.
Their stated "growth map" went in the toilet last 2 years. No where near 50% and steady decline to single digits for all of 2024 and a negative estimated number for the USA>

I realize that. My "other than that I think he's doing a great job, and continues to gain my respect" comment might take us down a political rabbit hole, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[dogememe]

This I was not aware of. I just figured they weren't taking EVs as seriously as other manufacturers and it was a compliance car. I know it happens though I've never understood making a car for that purpose. They're rarely good with that motivation.

I didn’t know the Toyota BZ4X and its cousins were made in partnership with BYD. In fact that’s VERY surprising given how bad it is. I heard BYD knows how to make an EV.

 

[UncleDave]

I didn’t know the Toyota BZ4X and its cousins were made in partnership with BYD. In fact that’s VERY surprising given how bad it is. I heard BYD knows how to make an EV.

Despite all the arm waving and mouth music coming out of Japan Toyota didn't have the chops to build their own so they picked a chinese partner and popped out a first effort product.

BYD seems to know what they are doing, who knows how the cars will last and be supported over time.

Until BYD comes into compliance with GAAP accounting principles and discloses their supply chain financing they currently hide we just don't know how well they are actually performing.

https://financialpost.com/pmn/busin...hain-financing-masks-ballooning-debt-gmt-says

 

[wag123]

Toyota didn't have the chops to build their own so they picked a chinese partner and popped out a first effort product.

This is too simplistic, the marketplace and production/manufacturing realities are far more complex. Toyota is buried by the demand for their other vehicles, particularly their hybrids. They simply don't have the free resources to produce something that they aren't ready to produce. Toyota has the capability of designing, developing, and manufacturing any kind of quality product that they want, but in their own time frame because they are extremely cautious and take a long-term measured approach with everything that they do.
BYD BEVs are a very new product. Just because they are manufacturing and selling a lot of them doesn't make them well developed (they aren't) or any good (they may not be, here in the US we don't really know how good or bad they really are, but based on the bZ4x I would say that they aren't very good, yet).
Putting their name on and marketing a under-developed BYD BEV was a mistake and Toyota knows it.

 

[UncleDave]

This is too simplistic, the marketplace and production/manufacturing realities are far more complex. Toyota is buried by the demand for their other vehicles, particularly their hybrids. They simply don't have the free resources to produce something that they aren't ready to produce. Toyota has the capability of designing, developing, and manufacturing any kind of quality product that they want, but in their own time frame because they are extremely cautious and take a long-term measured approach with everything that they do.
BYD BEVs are a very new product. Just because they are manufacturing and selling a lot of them doesn't make them well developed (they aren't) or any good (they may not be, here in the US we don't really know how good or bad they really are, based on the bZ4x I would say that they aren't very good, yet).
Putting their name on and marketing a under-developed BYD BEV was a mistake and Toyota knows it.

A risk of a magna carta post I made it simple.

Toyota hasn't made anywhere near the investment needed to compete in this segment and had to rely on a partner to come to market.

They haven't chosen to get serious about this segment as of yet despite making claims about solid state and "1000 mile batteries" (as if a battery alone determines MPKWH) .

I'd have preferred no BEV from them vs. the BEV we got.

I agree on BYD being too new to trust.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This is too simplistic, the marketplace and production/manufacturing realities are far more complex. Toyota is buried by the demand for their other vehicles, particularly their hybrids. They simply don't have the free resources to produce something that they aren't ready to produce. Toyota has the capability of designing, developing, and manufacturing any kind of quality product that they want, but in their own time frame because they are extremely cautious and take a long-term measured approach with everything that they do.
BYD BEVs are a very new product. Just because they are manufacturing and selling a lot of them doesn't make them well developed (they aren't) or any good (they may not be, here in the US we don't really know how good or bad they really are, based on the bZ4x I would say that they aren't very good, yet).
Putting their name on and marketing a under-developed BYD BEV was a mistake and Toyota knows it.

Let's assume this is all true.
That is zero reason to deliver some of the very worst performing EV on the market.
It makes no sense; in fact it plays into the leader's hands.

 

[wag123]

I'd have prefeered no BEV from them vs. the BEV we got.

Agreed.

 

[circuitsmith]

(Preliminary draft): Circuitsmith's rule of combustion vs electric "stuff":
The bigger the device the more favorable to make it combustion powered and the less favorable to make it battery-electric powered & vice versa.

Examples: Gas powered shavers and watches will probably never become popular, as well as battery-electric powered tractor trailers and cargo ships.

(sorry I'm feverish and bored with a head cold)

 

[alarmguy]

What Toyota BEV’s are sold in the United States? since we’re on the subject and I am clueless

 

[JeffKeryk]

What Toyota BEV’s are sold in the United States? since we’re on the subject and I am clueless

Toyota bZ4X
Lexus RZ

 

[alarmguy]

Toyota bZ4X

Looking at the photos, I can see why it’s not selling but I haven’t seen one in real life

 

[JeffKeryk]

Looking at the photos, I can see why it’s not selling but I haven’t seen one in real life

The Lexus was nice; it was a Lexus. Wifey liked it. As posted before, the sales manager to me, "You don't want that one." or something to the effect.

My guess is, Toyota (and Lexus will deliver a product the masss will love. They just haven't done it yet.

 

[mva]

I’m wondering if the bZ4X seems to be lagging behind other EV’s because Toyota has been more conservative with the operating parameters of the batteries. I know that on my Prius Prime the battery full charge is limited to about 90% of the actual maximum capacity and there are other provisions such as slower charging to extend the battery life. This conservative approach reduces range, acceleration and charging speed. The bZ4X might turn out to be quite a reliable and long lasting EV over the long haul.

 

[UncleDave]

I’m wondering if the bZ4X seems to be lagging behind other EV’s because Toyota has been more conservative with the operating parameters of the batteries. I know that on my Prius Prime the battery full charge is limited to about 90% of the actual maximum capacity and there are other provisions such as slower charging to extend the battery life. This conservative approach reduces range, acceleration and charging speed. The bZ4X might turn out to be quite a reliable and long lasting EV over the long haul.

This might be an acceptable excuse for its performance if everyone else were having longevity problems but they aren't.

This isn't experimental anymore pack lifespans, charging, and degradation curves are well known at this point.

Once out of its range circle Its journey times make it a wholly unworkable ICE replacement, and as such it becomes a 50K + city only car.

 

[alarmguy]

I’m wondering if the bZ4X seems to be lagging behind other EV’s because Toyota has been more conservative with the operating parameters of the batteries. I know that on my Prius Prime the battery full charge is limited to about 90% of the actual maximum capacity and there are other provisions such as slower charging to extend the battery life. This conservative approach reduces range, acceleration and charging speed. The bZ4X might turn out to be quite a reliable and long lasting EV over the long haul.

I never knew the car existed until the other day.
Anyway, there is a used one at a Toyota car dealer for $22,000 with 11,000 miles on it. (2023)
Im not so sure I can get over how they put black around the wheel and also into the front. Almost looks like unpainted repair shop work.
With that said, if I needed a second local car I would look at it for that price.
22k - $4000 taxpayer gift (maybe) = 18k

 

[Torrid]

I've seen a couple of Solterras and I stress a couple, but I've never seen the bZ4X in person.

 

[UncleDave]

It's a good idea, with great coachwork, that works worse than what the market offered almost 15 years ago.

One of my employees bought one and drives it to work fairly often.

I don't dig the "Voltron" blacked out fenders loud bodywork, but the coachwork is almost lexus.
I've not asked for a ride, but did sit in it ,and its interior is nice.
Certainly nicer than its competition but not as nice as my RX400H but nice.

He only drives it in a 100 mile circle, If you keep it inside the circle it's a slowish but nice EV.
Once you have to start charging your trip time spent at a charger is 3X the market leaders.