Who said anything about ridicule? I said if you base your decisions primarily on feelings, then you'll be pretty selfish. What boundaries would you have? At the extreme, it's if it feels good (to me) do it. Regardless of how it makes others feel.
That holds true regardless your orientation or preference. Gay or straight, religious or not, and so on.
It's not an attack on any orientation, it's questioning the reasoning that we can or should be ruled by our feelings.
It was that sort of selfish feeling that enabled my ex-wife to be entitled to have an affair. It was all about her feelings, with no regard to her spouse or our children.
So when folks suggest making decisions based on feelings is a good thing, color me suspect given my experience with humanity.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: javacontour
We all have choices on how we behave, full stop. If you don't, then wouldn't that be a form of mental illness?
Let's assume everyone is of normal mental health. Gay or straight, we have some choices.
I'm attracted to redheaded women. That's my preference. But I don't try to make a baby with every redheaded woman I meet. I stay true to my wife. That's being in control of my behavior.
One can say they have certain attractions, and I'll buy that. What I don't buy is that we cannot control our behaviors. No one would accept my argument if I said I could help myself, I just had to have my way with that other woman.
I do have the choice to honor my vows or not. That's entirely on me. This is true regardless if I'm attracted to another woman, or thought I was born the wrong gender.
We may not be able to control how we feel. But we better be in full control of how we act on our feelings. Otherwise, if you accept justifications based on feelings, then everything is right and nothing is wrong.
Am I saying it's easy? Of course not. It is probably easier for me to avoid that redhead at the gym than it may be to avoid taking action on a sense of gender mis-identity. Or not.
I'm simply concerned that if we base it all off feelings, with no consequences for the behavior choices, chaos will ensue.
Originally Posted By: Laminar Lou
Pablo and Bryan,
First, thanks for your grown-up responses.
My wife and I have the "it's a choice/not a choice" debate every once in awhile. She has a strong religious background so she still believes it is a choice, but since we have mutual friends that are homosexuals I don't think you can make a blanket statement whether it is a choice or not. I know a [censored] that I think was more of a choice, but I know of another that I think was born that way.
In this instance, the urge has to be great to take on a surgery like this. His wife said it wasn't because he wanted to have sex with men. And, interestingly, she didn't think he was in any relationships currently.
I can't imagine that anyone would want the ridicule that is associated with becoming a transsexual on purpose. As Pablo said it; "People do what they have to do."
I find it difficult to imagine people ridicululing people who identify with any sexual identity or gender identify other than straight and what they physically were born as. Maybe my generation is a lot more tolerant and open minded than those that came before us, who's to say. But I fully support people's freedoms to do what they want.
And if there is an issue in the workplace, it's due to one of two things.
A. Someone in that environment decided that something that is in no way their business decided to make a stink of it
or
B. The person in question decided they wanted to flaunt and make a big deal of it
Guess which one is far more common these days? (Hint, it's not B)
That holds true regardless your orientation or preference. Gay or straight, religious or not, and so on.
It's not an attack on any orientation, it's questioning the reasoning that we can or should be ruled by our feelings.
It was that sort of selfish feeling that enabled my ex-wife to be entitled to have an affair. It was all about her feelings, with no regard to her spouse or our children.
So when folks suggest making decisions based on feelings is a good thing, color me suspect given my experience with humanity.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: javacontour
We all have choices on how we behave, full stop. If you don't, then wouldn't that be a form of mental illness?
Let's assume everyone is of normal mental health. Gay or straight, we have some choices.
I'm attracted to redheaded women. That's my preference. But I don't try to make a baby with every redheaded woman I meet. I stay true to my wife. That's being in control of my behavior.
One can say they have certain attractions, and I'll buy that. What I don't buy is that we cannot control our behaviors. No one would accept my argument if I said I could help myself, I just had to have my way with that other woman.
I do have the choice to honor my vows or not. That's entirely on me. This is true regardless if I'm attracted to another woman, or thought I was born the wrong gender.
We may not be able to control how we feel. But we better be in full control of how we act on our feelings. Otherwise, if you accept justifications based on feelings, then everything is right and nothing is wrong.
Am I saying it's easy? Of course not. It is probably easier for me to avoid that redhead at the gym than it may be to avoid taking action on a sense of gender mis-identity. Or not.
I'm simply concerned that if we base it all off feelings, with no consequences for the behavior choices, chaos will ensue.
Originally Posted By: Laminar Lou
Pablo and Bryan,
First, thanks for your grown-up responses.
My wife and I have the "it's a choice/not a choice" debate every once in awhile. She has a strong religious background so she still believes it is a choice, but since we have mutual friends that are homosexuals I don't think you can make a blanket statement whether it is a choice or not. I know a [censored] that I think was more of a choice, but I know of another that I think was born that way.
In this instance, the urge has to be great to take on a surgery like this. His wife said it wasn't because he wanted to have sex with men. And, interestingly, she didn't think he was in any relationships currently.
I can't imagine that anyone would want the ridicule that is associated with becoming a transsexual on purpose. As Pablo said it; "People do what they have to do."
I find it difficult to imagine people ridicululing people who identify with any sexual identity or gender identify other than straight and what they physically were born as. Maybe my generation is a lot more tolerant and open minded than those that came before us, who's to say. But I fully support people's freedoms to do what they want.
And if there is an issue in the workplace, it's due to one of two things.
A. Someone in that environment decided that something that is in no way their business decided to make a stink of it
or
B. The person in question decided they wanted to flaunt and make a big deal of it
Guess which one is far more common these days? (Hint, it's not B)
