Engine Failure - Toyota 4Runner V6 - Warranty

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Originally Posted By: DAB1123
May I post my Email addresses on my signature line?


I've sent you a Private message but to let others know I'm sorry but you may not. Its been removed.

Take care, bill
 
Originally Posted By: DAB1123
May I post my Email addresses on my signature line?


Are you an attorney?
 
Everything I've read says the burden is on the dealer/mfg to prove oil neglect on the part of the owner. They can't just say you didn't keep up with changes. It has to be an oil related problem.
 
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Everything I've read says the burden is on the dealer/mfg to prove oil neglect on the part of the owner. They can't just say you didn't keep up with changes. It has to be an oil related problem.


Have you ever worked for a car dealer? Cars will sit while the owner proves he did what he was supposed to do. In the case of an engine failure it is not unreasonable to ask for proof of maint. Then the dealer must get approval from the mfg to do the repair. Engine work is not cheap, and the dealer is not going to do anything until they are sure they will get paid. While this is going on the car is sitting.

I remember a Honda sitting 2 weeks with a blown tranny because Honda coprorate wanted to be certain the transmission was bad before replacing it. I was harassed almost daily by the customer because I sold them the car, a lease return returned early still under factory warranty. That is one of many examples, and no maint was required [at the time] on the unit other than making sure the fluid level was full.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Everything I've read says the burden is on the dealer/mfg to prove oil neglect on the part of the owner. They can't just say you didn't keep up with changes. It has to be an oil related problem.


Have you ever worked for a car dealer? Cars will sit while the owner proves he did what he was supposed to do. In the case of an engine failure it is not unreasonable to ask for proof of maint. Then the dealer must get approval from the mfg to do the repair. Engine work is not cheap, and the dealer is not going to do anything until they are sure they will get paid. While this is going on the car is sitting.

I remember a Honda sitting 2 weeks with a blown tranny because Honda coprorate wanted to be certain the transmission was bad before replacing it. I was harassed almost daily by the customer because I sold them the car, a lease return returned early still under factory warranty. That is one of many examples, and no maint was required [at the time] on the unit other than making sure the fluid level was full.


Why do I have to work at a dealership to have this information? I did have an GM engine replaced under warranty this year. Burden was not on me to prove anything.
 
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Everything I've read says the burden is on the dealer/mfg to prove oil neglect on the part of the owner. They can't just say you didn't keep up with changes. It has to be an oil related problem.


Have you ever worked for a car dealer? Cars will sit while the owner proves he did what he was supposed to do. In the case of an engine failure it is not unreasonable to ask for proof of maint. Then the dealer must get approval from the mfg to do the repair. Engine work is not cheap, and the dealer is not going to do anything until they are sure they will get paid. While this is going on the car is sitting.

I remember a Honda sitting 2 weeks with a blown tranny because Honda coprorate wanted to be certain the transmission was bad before replacing it. I was harassed almost daily by the customer because I sold them the car, a lease return returned early still under factory warranty. That is one of many examples, and no maint was required [at the time] on the unit other than making sure the fluid level was full.


Why do I have to work at a dealership to have this information? I did have an GM engine replaced under warranty this year. Burden was not on me to prove anything.


Lucky you, not everyone is so lucky. In this instance the OP should be OK, we'll see. I've seen cars sit while things got sorted out.

BTW what exactly happened to your engine, was it cut and dry? Clearly a mfg defect? If it were the oil that failed GM would not have payed out so easily. Remember this topic has drifted into hypothetical.
 
Originally Posted By: radtech91
Not to hijack this topic or anything, but I thought this would be the best place to put this without starting a new topic.

I can't find a receipt for an Oil Change I bought last year for my Honda. Is it possible for me to go to Advance Auto Parts and have them print one off or is over a year too long?

After reading this thread it got me thinking about my receipts and I went and checked and there is only this one that I can't find.

Thanks


If you paid by credit card they might be able to provide the statement for you.
 
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: tsduke
Everything I've read says the burden is on the dealer/mfg to prove oil neglect on the part of the owner. They can't just say you didn't keep up with changes. It has to be an oil related problem.


Have you ever worked for a car dealer? Cars will sit while the owner proves he did what he was supposed to do. In the case of an engine failure it is not unreasonable to ask for proof of maint. Then the dealer must get approval from the mfg to do the repair. Engine work is not cheap, and the dealer is not going to do anything until they are sure they will get paid. While this is going on the car is sitting.

I remember a Honda sitting 2 weeks with a blown tranny because Honda coprorate wanted to be certain the transmission was bad before replacing it. I was harassed almost daily by the customer because I sold them the car, a lease return returned early still under factory warranty. That is one of many examples, and no maint was required [at the time] on the unit other than making sure the fluid level was full.


Why do I have to work at a dealership to have this information? I did have an GM engine replaced under warranty this year. Burden was not on me to prove anything.
The Tech/dealership /factory service rep should be able to tell the condition of the oil and how the unit has been serviced. It is a weasle screw the customer tactic.
 
My guess is the dealer is waiting to get an OK from Toyota on the repair. Nothing gets done until the dealer is certain they will get paid for the repair by the mfg. In some instances a rep has to come out and see for himself. All depends on the cost of the repair. Some people are under the impression that all warranty repairs are simple cut and dry. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. There are times the customer has to wait, or hire an attorney to move things along. Holidays and weather can also delay things.
 
Not only do they need mfg authorization for repair, but the dealer also seeks approval for tear down and diagnostics.
 
yup, they will ask the mfg for payment of teardown and inspection first and foremost. this is what just happened to me. then they sent pics to the mfg along with their determination on what the cause is and if it was neglect or defect, etc. but note this, even if they say neglect, or that there was not a mfg defect to cause it... then you have other options. BBB first, that will almost guaranteed get it fixed. as I did, but if not, then you can sue. the point is, as long as you have those receipts, one way or another, you will get it fixed. though like someone mentioned, it could be sitting for awhile.
 
Originally Posted By: shpankey
though like someone mentioned, it could be sitting for awhile.


My point exactly, I saw more than a few Honda vehicles sitting waiting for approvals. Typically customers would storm the salesman demanding that he does something to help. Aside from talking to the service manager, and having him explain a dozen and one times how things work with high ticket warranty repairs there isn't much that can be done. In the end it usually works out, time and patience however are needed more so than not.
 
I'm not sure why this conversation is still going on in the absence of any new information. We haven't heard a peep from the the OP in a while and considering the holidays and the nature of the problem, it's likely to be a while before things sort out.

This thread started off to be advice for a guy going through a tough time. It's degenerated into speculation, doom & gloom, and debates bordering on obnoxious over nothing connected to the OP's problem. If the OP isn't thoroughly disgusted with us by now, he'll eventually get back on and fill us in on the latest.
 
The thread took a shift in direction for sure. I don't really see it as obnoxious. I think there is some good info here, and maybe some members might learn something. No car dealer service dept is going to honor a big warranty claim w/o following procedure. This thread is telling people to prepared, keep good records, and know how the system works. A person walking into a dealer with a blown engine on a Monday thinking by Friday he'll have a new engine is in for a rude awakening, that's all.

Granted it went off topic a bit, hypothetical, what ifs, but still beneficial and informative. Opinions vary that's for sure. Hopefully the OP will report back with good news.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I should stress, I DO hope the OP get this fixed...it would be horrible for a BITOGER to get denied coverage when most of us take better care of cars than anyone....I wasn't after a "HA! told you so!" moment.

If they open up the engine, and see how clean and maintained it is, there really should be any question beyond that, except 'why did the engine let go?'


Something that might be an issue is with the son driving it at the time of the failure . I don't know if they would point a finger but it's possable if they know this is the case they might try and say he was "racing or over reving " it and that caused the failure . I'm not trying to imply anything by this ( both my sons drove our cars too ) but you know the thinking that kids will be kids attitude .

I should also add that once they open the engine it would be a no brainer to tell if OC neglect was the cause of the failure . If the engine is full of sludge and the pump screen plugged that would be a pretty clear indication . We all know this isn't the case and I'm sure that engine will be very clean so I doubt they could say that lack of OC's was the issue resulting in the failure .
 
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IMO sounds like the dealer is looking for proof that the engine wasn't underfilled hence that's why they're asking for a receipt of your last change if you have it. The dealership can make a stronger case for warranty repair with a receipt which notates the correct type and amount of oil. A receipt showing the owner buying more oil than needed doesn't help his case because it doesn't prove he didn't underfill (esp if same oil used for multiple vehicles).

Of course the dealer will pull codes from engine to review RPMs, Temperature, etc.

Remember the dealer is only acting as the intermediary between you and Toyota Corp.
 
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The son driving it will play no part in the decision. If young age was a case for warranty denial then this would be posted all over the place on the internet. Without hard proof making random speculations based on nothing other than all young drivers race all the time won't go very far at all. The mfg has to have some solid evidence if they want to win a case in an arbitration or in a court room. They know this. They will have to have SOMETHING to go on. Pictures of a sludged engine, lack of maintenance receipts or some kind of previous history of some kind of event. And even then, it's a tough sell for them.

They can make things tough for you, making you wait a long time and go through the processes, and that in and of itself is something some people just can't afford if it's their only car. I was lucky that I had another car and could wait it out. In my case they tried to say there wasn't a "defect" in the part... they didn't even try the slippery slope of "abuse" or neglect as they probably knew it's impossible to prove if the customer has receipts. They can't prove you didn't change the oil, but you have proven you bought it. Why would a reasonable person assume you bought oil but didn't use it? The "defect" defense is almost as shallow. They are saying there was nothing wrong with it therefore it shouldn't have failed, therefore the user must have done something wrong. Except that is full of holes too. It failed for whatever reason, whether there was an initial defect or not. This is what a warranty is for. The arbitrator didn't even comment on a supposed defect. Just said the car's under warranty, you have proved nothing whatsoever, you have 30 days to fix it.

I shoud say, that is all worst case scenario. I really don't see any issues for you at all. I think they will fix it without issue. You just have to let the process take place. They will appeal the mfg for a teardown and inspection most likely (though I know on some items even this is left up to the dealer to pick and chose which ones they do this on). Maybe on such a high ticket warranty item like engines they have to, I don't know, but something like a transmission could be left up to the dealer. Either way, you will no doubt have a nice clean engine and oil/filter receipts... pretty cut and dry. They will more than likely order you a longblock relatively quickly and put it in.

My advice is to be polite and courteous and understanding but firm in your resolve for them to fix it free of charge. The dealer can be your friend or make things long and drawn out. They have no personal interest in this unless you give them one. Good or bad. I advise to give them a good one to speed things up.
 
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