Early Oil Change on New VW EA888?

[bigjl]

the closest regional supplier is LM
in fact i think that LM has the most oils with vw approvals ,i would call LM a vw oil brand easily

Maybe in large parts of Mainland Europe, and certainly Germany.

But you struggle to find LM products in the UK, you have to go looking for them, usually buying online. (OpieOils of the LM Store on Amazon)

Castrol, Shell, Mobil and Petronas? You trip over them everywhere.

Valvoline, ELF or Gulf you sometimes come across at larger automotive relailers like EuroCarParts or GSF, but usually easier via OpieOils.

Total is available at some Halfords Stores.

I don’t include Retailers own oils (like TripleQX) as I would only use them if there was no other option on a long trip and needed a litre of top up.

It’s not just European or American brands that can be hard to locate in the UK

Even other UK brands like Morris, Comma and Millers are hard to find.

 

[bigjl]

I’m in the dump it early and drive aggressively crowd. I also change the ATF before 20k miles.
I don’t see how getting rid of the manufacturing and break-in contaminants early is not a positive.

Also, most motorcycle manufacturers I’m aware of, even the most pedestrian and not highly stressed models and I think even scooters have a 600 mile first OCI to this today. Clearly these guys are not aware of BITOG

Not sure why you would want to change ATF at under 20k miles.

Seems somewhat wasteful.

Environmental concerns are a fact of life.

And the large number of American vehicles being run for decades in places like Ghana would suggest changing oil too often is not overly relevant for longevity.

Because no Autotrans are having their fluid changed at 20k in Ghana.

 

[KrisZ]

Not sure why you would want to change ATF at under 20k miles.

Seems somewhat wasteful.

Environmental concerns are a fact of life.

And the large number of American vehicles being run for decades in places like Ghana would suggest changing oil too often is not overly relevant for longevity.

Because no Autotrans are having their fluid changed at 20k in Ghana.

Here is my reason. It has to do with the contamination from the manufacturing process as well as brand new clutch packs shedding a lot of the friction materials very early on, which tapers off drastically after their initial break in. Changing the ATF early gets rid of this very abrasive contamination.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3068967/

 

[Thermo1223]

Here is my reason. It has to do with the contamination from the manufacturing process as well as brand new clutch packs shedding a lot of the friction materials very early on, which tapers off drastically after their initial break in. Changing the ATF early gets rid of this very abrasive contamination.


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/3068967/

Splitting hairs IMO since it all is caught by the filter and settles to the bottom of the pan or even caught by the magnet if installed.

 

[Thermo1223]

It’s always “ let’s see the data” and “ without data you have nothing” . Especially handy to deploy when you are losing an argument.


Alert!

Prepare for BITOG heresy:


Data is not needed to make a decision that will be beneficial, likely correct or even the absolute correct decision from a choice of many. Is that a difficult concept to embrace in today’s world?

I'm not feeding into this other than to say data is always needed to make a decision, any decision whether beneficial or not. It's present in every aspect of live.

 

[Zack1978]

I very proudly had the oil changed in my GLI at 600 miles. I could care less if others think I wasted my $$$$.

 

[KEVINK0000]

I'm not feeding into this other than to say data is always needed to make a decision, any decision whether beneficial or not. It's present in every aspect of live.

And this is my point. “Data is always needed to make a decision, any decision.” You stated this perfectly.

Some will see the foolishness ( and other things) of this view and some won’t.

 

[KEVINK0000]

Coming back to this, since some of you don't know this is a thing...

For your viewing pleasure. This is the bottom of a new oil pan (Genuine Walmart) from a 6k run of QS Euro 5w-40. Engine has 230k miles on it, it's the slow wearing BMW N52. I have sent a sample of this in to OA for further discussion later. This engine is healthy, and filter (Fram Endurance) was not ripped or otherwise abnormally deformed, and did not have any abnormal metal in it. I have seen this much metal regardless of filter choice Mann, Mahle, or Fram on this engine (owned for over 100k miles). This was just the best picture of the bottom of the pan. There were smaller flakes all of the pan that the eye could see clearly, but the camera could not. This was in direct, gorgeous, Arizona sunlight. A cloudy day or man-made lighting obscures the viewing.

During break in this amount of metal is greatly multiplied.

Every engine I have ever drained oil from that I have taken the time to do this, has produced this metal, in some quantity-more or less. This one has less metal than most. I will always do this on break in oil. Its a lot more metal then. It will sit in layers, usually. You can pick it up with a plastic spoon. Like I said before, and some scoffer here doubted it, I saw flakes like this on a new WRX on the dispstick.

Is it sensible to get this out of the engine during break in? Yes, I say it is. Try this yourself on your next OCI.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Coming back to this, since some of you don't know this is a thing...

For your viewing pleasure. This is the bottom of a new oil pan (Walmart) from a 6k run of QS Euro 5w-40. Engine has 230k miles on it, it's the slow wearing BMW N52. I have sent a sample of this in to OA for further discussion later. This engine is healthy, and filter was not bypassing, and did not have any abnormal metal in it.

During break in this amount of metal is greatly multiplied.

Every engine I have ever drained oil from that I have taken the time to do this, has produced this metal, in some quantity more or less. This one has less metal than most. I will always do this on break in oil. It s a lot more metal. It will sit in layers, usually. You can pick it up with a plastic spoon. Is it sensible to get this out of the engine during break in? Yes, I say it is.

View attachment 222300

The million dollar question is whether the initial wear so abrasive that it causes statistically significant reduction in the expected operational life of a vehicle.

 

[KEVINK0000]

No, it's a $40 question.

Again, the reliance of statistics solely as a decision making tool of many on this site is really pervasive. It is very limiting in my view.

It is easy to surmise, or deduce (if you are able) that there could be (likely is) benefit, there is no downside, and the cost is minimal.

The million dollar question is whether the initial wear so abrasive that it causes statistically significant reduction in the expected operational life of a vehicle.

 

[TiGeo]

The million dollar question is whether the initial wear so abrasive that it causes statistically significant reduction in the expected operational life of a vehicle.

This is a 100% feel-good thing to do which is totally fine to me BTW - but please say that in these posts e.g. "I know it's not going to increase the life of my engine in any meaningful way in a standard ownership run but I like to so I do it." which is v. different than the typical "I change it early b/c all that metal is bad for it." which has no basis in the data I've ever seen.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

No, it's a $40 question.

Again, the reliance of statistics solely as a decision making tool of many on this site is really pervasive. It is very limiting in my view.

It is easy to surmise, or deduce (if you are able) that there could be (likely is) benefit, there is no downside, and the cost is minimal.

UOA won't help you there.

However, judging by the fact that the average age of vehicles on the road is higher than ever before it does suggest that dumping the factory fill early is not a significant contributor to vehicle life.

Sure there could be a potential benefit but the reality is that without data the decision is subjective at best and best taken with a grain of salt. It's best to be honest with people who ask this question which is, "Go ahead and dump it early if it makes you feel better, you're bored, or whatever but don't expect miracles" rather than implying that one is not a responsible owner if they don't change the factory fill early.

There's a lot of "measuring" in the auto enthusiast community which goes by how much one over maintains their vehicle.

 

[Thermo1223]

Coming back to this, since some of you don't know this is a thing...

That looks like dust/dirt/pollen/anything else other than metal. You'd have a metal slurry not chunks if there were issues but cool picture I guess.

 

[KEVINK0000]

It may increase the life of the engine, you don't know that either way. Agree that engines seem to last long enough for most owners with factory recommended maint. The same can be said for oil choice, yet we argue that here 24/7. That's OK.

But you can't say that there is no basis in data, because there is no data collected to determine an answer to this question. All you can cite is that you have data that engines experience an adequate life regardless. Which I agree with. But that does not mean there is no benefit.

In fact, maybe some of the problem engines over the years (Kia, perhaps) would have not had spun bearings later in their lives with 600 mile initial oil changes. We don't know.

Therefore you say this is a 100% feel good thing, which I say you really can't. You don't know.

But I can say what I said, and it is likely true:

"It is easy to surmise, or deduce (if you are able) that there could be (likely is) benefit, there is no downside, and the cost is minimal."

If someone is going to base their decisions on data exclusively, they should know well what the data represents and what it does not.

Many here miss this point completely.

 

[KEVINK0000]

Pollen? Ha. Maybe you need to come out from behind the keyboard a time or two. Try it. I have made it clear how to do exactly what I did.
If you lack real-world experience and it seems that you do, maybe stand back and learn before typing silliness, as you have done, a couple of times now. Hit pause before beclowning yourself further.

That looks like dust/dirt/pollen/anything else other than metal. You'd have a metal slurry not chunks if there were issues but cool picture I guess.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

5k is fine

 

[Nessism1]

Newbie question time: oil analysis shows high metals in the oil during break in. Does the filter remove harmful particles, such that high particle counts during the analysis are not large enough to cause wear in the engine?

 

[KEVINK0000]

That's a point of contention here, so others will chime in also. My view is that there is no downside, and there may be benefit. We got into the weeds regarding oil pans. Others will have an opinion also.

Now, if its a rebuild, and its first start oil, then yes, I would say drain it after a couple of heat cycles, oil and new filter.

BTW good on you. I first saw the '81 KZ750 in your sig, and then the screenshot of Jonny Quest. Very awesome. That episode scared the crud out of me as a little kid.

Newbie question time: oil analysis shows high metals in the oil during break in. Does the filter remove harmful particles, such that high particle counts during the analysis are not large enough to cause wear in the engine?

Pics of the bike please. I still have my twinshock '81 Gpz550. (KZ550D1)

 

[Nessism1]

Pics of the bike please. I still have my twinshock '81 Gpz550. (KZ550D1)

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/post-your-latest-motorcycle-oil-change.214713/post-6885982

 

[KEVINK0000]

Outstanding! Wow, those Ohlins look awesome!