Yes, same HT/HS as 502 00.
MK7 Volkswagen GLI, change viscosity after tune?
- Thread starter John9721
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Can you explain why stop-start would affect that?
Yep, 504 30s are just shy of the 502 40s that are barely 40s anyway. Same HTHS specification (3.5).
Ya I think there was a gap with the GTIs too where start/stop came out a model year before the switch to 508. Doesnt start-stop typically want a thinner oil though? It's at least something to consider
Hmm, you know what, I always see that vehicles with start-stop always use thinner oils so I just have assumed that start-stop requires thinner oils and that's the way it is... but I've never actually thought about why that is. Maybe it's all just an emissions thing and there is actually no good reason.
I guess i assumed it's because the oils would flow faster, and maybe that is part of it, but they also can have anti drain back filters and faster pumps so maybe that's not as much of a factor? But would thicker oil provide a benefit? Like if an engine doesn't have start-stop but then it gets start-stop, would that push the needle more towards requiring higher viscosity or lower viscosity? I would still think it'd push the needle more towards thin but idk.
And the other thing I'm thinking about now is, since thinner oils are used with cars that have start stop more and more these days, regardless of whether that's because it's better for the engine or if it's just a fuel economy thing, either way, would that mean that these thinner oils are more likely to have the additives that you would want to have on startup? Like moly and solid film lubricants or w/e. And so should use them for that reason anyways? Hmm.
I guess i assumed it's because the oils would flow faster, and maybe that is part of it, but they also can have anti drain back filters and faster pumps so maybe that's not as much of a factor? But would thicker oil provide a benefit? Like if an engine doesn't have start-stop but then it gets start-stop, would that push the needle more towards requiring higher viscosity or lower viscosity? I would still think it'd push the needle more towards thin but idk.
And the other thing I'm thinking about now is, since thinner oils are used with cars that have start stop more and more these days, regardless of whether that's because it's better for the engine or if it's just a fuel economy thing, either way, would that mean that these thinner oils are more likely to have the additives that you would want to have on startup? Like moly and solid film lubricants or w/e. And so should use them for that reason anyways? Hmm.
Hint: all engines need oil that provides sufficient lubrication on start, not just ones that do it at every stop-light.
Ok...but if an engine starts and stops 20x more often over the same amount of time you're going to want to make adjustments for that.
The real question is- if an engine doesn't have start-stop, then the feature is added, all else being equal, does the start-stop feature alone push the needle more towards the engine requiring higher viscosity or lower viscosity?
Because it doesn't have zero effect. It's gonna be one or the other.
Stop/Start is a thing in Europe for a long time. My 2011 BMW 328 has it disabled for the US market.
And that is on an engine that was recommended here for LL01, in Europe LL01 and LL04 since 2009.
The Audi A3 etron with a 1.4 tfsi engine was first specced for 502 oil. This was changed for the latest revision in 2020 to 508. This engine can be started, ran at redline for a short period (seconds in some cases) and then switched off again. This for me shows that with regards to start stop oil thickness is irrelevant.
The reason Audi gave (from the factory) for the use of 502 originally was that it was better capable of higher water content control before needing to be changed.
The reason Audi gave (from the factory) for the use of 502 originally was that it was better capable of higher water content control before needing to be changed.
Most new engines designed for start stop now have coated bearings. However, if anything, a higher viscosity would seem to be beneficial for start-stop.
This ^
There is no benefit or even 'requirement' for start/stop tech.
Every single engine start (and engine stop) comes with low oil
pressure for a second or so. If this is happening with hotter or
hot oil, thus thin oil (as any oil is thin when hot), then MOFT is
inevitably weaker. That said, hot = thin oil will trickle quicker
towards the oil sump, making for elevated wear on every start.
So it makes sense what Audiman said to forgo thinner oil with
start/stop tech.
Btw, start/stop is permanently off on all my cars. Superfluous.
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