Doubts About Honda Maintenance Minder System

[The Critic]

I have my friend's 2009 Fit here and it has been more than 4500 miles since the last oil change and the Oil Life Percentage is still at 70%. More than 1/2 of the miles are from short, low-speed 3-5 mile trips with the remaining from two long trips.

From what I have read on the Fit forums, it seems that most drivers are getting around 10k between a service. On other Honda models with the Maintenance Minder system, you would see a much wider range of intervals-- but not so with the Fit. It makes you wonder if the algorithm used on the Fit's Maintenance Minder is less sophisticated than the one on other models. Here is a thread that sort of discusses this.

So, either I am dreaming or there is something very different about the Maintenance Minder on the 2nd Generation Fit. Thoughts on this subject?

 

[Artem]

Maybe Honda's 1.5L is SO efficient that its extremely easy on oil and can do such extended drains without issues?

Honda sells the Fit all over the globe, see if you can find more info on the recommended OCI in those areas.

 

[lemonade]

From economic standpoint, i don;t see why Honda need to develop another "less sophosticated" algorithm for the Fit. Of course they use different variables for the fit, i honestly don't see a problem with this long oil change interval.

I wish i can get 10k out of my 2 Hondas V6.

Fit = less weight = smaller engine to pull = less fuel used covering the same distance.
If the gear ratio is optimized, the engine does not need to rev to high rpm, so less distance travelled by the distance covering the same distance travelled. Assuming about 4.5 qt sump just like most other hondas, it' possible to go to 10K or more.
The sweet thing is you can use dino to achieve this.

 

[dtt004]

Hi.

If you believe that you need to change the oil sooner, then you probably do. The maintenance minder system was designed to accommodate most drivers' usage and to remind them to change it/bring it out for a change, rather than give an accurate breakdown of the oil's chemistry. If you believe you fit into the 5% or so of drivers that cannot be adequately served by this system, you would do no hurt to change the oil.

Also, just because an oil life system extends the drain interval doesn't necessarily mean its less sophisticated. Each car was designed with a different purpose. A Fit is not an NSX which is not a Ridgeline. So each one has different lubrication requirements.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: dtt004

Also, just because an oil life system extends the drain interval doesn't necessarily mean its less sophisticated. Each car was designed with a different purpose. A Fit is not an NSX which is not a Ridgeline. So each one has different lubrication requirements.

I understand, however, considering the significant differences in driving patterns from customer to customer, one would expect significant differences in the computed oil drain interval. This is what I have seen with most Honda models, but not with the Fit.

 

[demarpaint]

I know people seem to love the MM system and think it is perfectly calibrated. GM has to reprogram them for DI which indicates they aren't perfect. As ddt004 said, if you feel the need to change the oil early your probably do. Cars got by for decades w/o a MM system. It is probably great for people who tend to need a poke to service their cars, car buffs don't need it IMO.

A great way to test yours [if you're willing to gamble] is to run it to lets say 10% and get a UOA. It could be spot on, and the only way "you'll" know for sure. JMO

 

[Pablo]

a) They are not exactly linear
b) Use a good synthetic oil and a good filter and stop worrying about it

 

[sciphi]

Ours needs changing since the oil life is at 15%. I'm grabbing a UOA for that interval to see if it's appropriate with 11k miles on Mobil 1 0w-20. Our other UOA at 9k miles came back pretty good aside from some fuel dilution.

 

[30valve]

Run the oil as far as you feel comfortable to and then get a UOA. Based on the results you will know how far you can really go.

 

[mitsuman47]

Don't forget that you have a 1.5L engine with an oil capacity of 4 quarts. Compare that to the V6 that's in the Accord. It's a 3.5L and has a 4.6 quart sump. Nearly 2.5x the displacement, but only 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart more oil in the sump.

 

[JHZR2]

What does a UOA show? Issues? Shearing? Fuel? Low TBN? AN other reason to think that something is wrong? If not, then al may be well.

 

[ottotheclown]

Keep in mind the 5 yrs 60k warranty is all they care about. Then you pay $100 hr labor rate. I know, I know, why would they play with rep.?? because they can.So as it has been said why do you let a car co. change the way it has worked for so many years already?????? PROFIT IS ALL THAT MATTERS !!

 

[Dan55]

I have a 2007 Fit and the oil minder goes off at around 7K to 8K at 15%. The newer Fits might have a different alogorithm or people are doing alot of highway mileage. Also looking at my records the MM trips at around 6 mos. Looking at the UOA's I know my car can easily do 10K on Dino.

 

[zulu]

All of Honda's 4 cyls are easy on oil, with the exception maybe being the K24. I have YET to see a bad UOA on a L15A engine. 4 quarts is a fairly large sump for such a small engine. Honda's MM is notably more conservative than other manufacturers oil monitering systems. Don't over-think it: just follow it and enjoy your Fit for another 300K. If you are really concerned about the interval, use a synthetic.

 

[bepperb]

Is it a manual?

My manual Accord it's just a mileage counter. I assume this is improved in newer Honda's and automatic Hondas since people disagree with me on this often.

Still, 10,000 really isn't that long. The D series had an 11,000 mile OCI, with filter every other change, before the MM system came along.

 

[tommygunn]

Not really sure how the Honda MM works.....I know some of the manufacturers are actually using "miniature" chemistry labs under the hood, to determine when the oil needs to be replaced....

While others base it simply on the number of miles driven, at X speed divided by Y RPMs, with an ambient temperature of Z........well.....something like that, you get my drift

What I don't understand, is why do they have to be "reset" ? Shouldn't they know when new oil and/or filter is added to the crankcase?

 

[gathermewool]

I'd trust the MM. As far as enthusiast being able to disregard, I disagree. If anything, I'd use a better oil and extend PAST the MM-indicated interval based on UOA. However, to save time and money, I'd probably find a cheap(er) oil, send out the first sample after a winter run and never worry about it again.

Do the Fits have a fuel dilution or blowby issue in general? If not, then I wouldn't expect a substantially reduced interval unless you're gunning it all across town.

 

[sciphi]

I'll post a UOA of an 11k mile run on 0w-20 once the oil gets changed. I'm supposed to change it this weekend when I have the time and the car.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I know people seem to love the MM system and think it is perfectly calibrated. GM has to reprogram them for DI which indicates they aren't perfect.


It seems lots of folks are wrapping themselves around the re-calibration of the OLM for DI vehicles as an indication that an OLM isn't accurate. I just don't see it that way. It has absolutely nothing to to with the OLM malfunctioning--they're simply changing the recommended interval. That's an issue with the engine and how it's treating the oil, not the OLM. I don't really see how that's relevant the the engine in a Honda Fit...



Originally Posted By: demarpaint
As ddt004 said, if you feel the need to change the oil early your probably do.


I couldn't disagree more. The entire UOA forum is littered with people who "felt" they needed to change their oil. Almost universally, these folks changed it earlier than necessary. I think I'd rather go with a system which actually calculates the variables with contribute to oil degradation than go on feelings....


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Cars got by for decades w/o a MM system. It is probably great for people who tend to need a poke to service their cars, car buffs don't need it IMO.


I would humbly suggest that many "car buffs" need it, since they're changing the oil more often than necessary, and are just recreational oil changers. It seems the folks who have it figured out are the ones following the OLM's... Sure, people got by for decades without one. You don't *need* one, but it does help people determine the most accurate oil change interval for their driving conditions. It's a lot more precise than time or mileage.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
A great way to test yours [if you're willing to gamble] is to run it to lets say 10% and get a UOA. It could be spot on, and the only way "you'll" know for sure. JMO


I agree it's a great way to confirm that the OLM works, but I'd hardly consider it a "gamble". There are several Honda Fit UOA's (and UOA's from other cars usign OLM's) from folks using the OLM/MM as a guide, and I'm just not seeing any of them where the oil isn't suitable for use based on OLM/MM-recommended intervals.

 

[oldmaninsc]

^All good points. I also agree the change on GM DI engines is not a problem with the OLM but a problem with the engine and GM is trying to mask it by doing shorter OCI.