Thanks for the insight everyone.
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Dont understand the GC mania
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Originally Posted By: jesbo
For me the GC seemed right for several reasons.
1- BMW, new, under warranty and GC meets specs for my car (BMW recommends Castrol).
2- N54 TT Engine runs hot - need full synthetic to withstand heat.
3- The 0w30 tests out as a thick 30wt (almost 40 at temperature) - good for valve train, vanos,turbo lube and cooling.
4- Its made in Germany (like my car).
The bottles I bought in the past all had the hex-shaped caps. Shouldn't make any difference in packaging as long as the bottle says European Formula 0W30 and "Made in Germany" on the back.
Im sure you use german gas also!
For me the GC seemed right for several reasons.
1- BMW, new, under warranty and GC meets specs for my car (BMW recommends Castrol).
2- N54 TT Engine runs hot - need full synthetic to withstand heat.
3- The 0w30 tests out as a thick 30wt (almost 40 at temperature) - good for valve train, vanos,turbo lube and cooling.
4- Its made in Germany (like my car).
The bottles I bought in the past all had the hex-shaped caps. Shouldn't make any difference in packaging as long as the bottle says European Formula 0W30 and "Made in Germany" on the back.
Im sure you use german gas also!
I'm going to back pedal on my use of GC in my Tacoma. It didn't work. Honestly, it was too heavy and bogged my engine down at take off. I think the best solution for me is light 5w30 in Summer and 5w20 in Winter. I learned the hard way that my Tacoma did not run very well with GC. It's a fine oil but not for me. Back to dino.
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Originally Posted By: Badlees
I'm going to back pedal on my use of GC in my Tacoma. It didn't work. Honestly, it was too heavy and bogged my engine down at take off. I think the best solution for me is light 5w30 in Summer and 5w20 in Winter. I learned the hard way that my Tacoma did not run very well with GC. It's a fine oil but not for me. Back to dino.
I really cant see GC "bogging" your engine down. The taco calls for a 30 weight. 10w30 or 5w30. GC is a hair thicker. You could run a 15w50 in there and not beable to feel a difference.
I'm going to back pedal on my use of GC in my Tacoma. It didn't work. Honestly, it was too heavy and bogged my engine down at take off. I think the best solution for me is light 5w30 in Summer and 5w20 in Winter. I learned the hard way that my Tacoma did not run very well with GC. It's a fine oil but not for me. Back to dino.
I really cant see GC "bogging" your engine down. The taco calls for a 30 weight. 10w30 or 5w30. GC is a hair thicker. You could run a 15w50 in there and not beable to feel a difference.
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: Badlees
I'm going to back pedal on my use of GC in my Tacoma. It didn't work. Honestly, it was too heavy and bogged my engine down at take off. I think the best solution for me is light 5w30 in Summer and 5w20 in Winter. I learned the hard way that my Tacoma did not run very well with GC. It's a fine oil but not for me. Back to dino.
I really cant see GC "bogging" your engine down. The taco calls for a 30 weight. 10w30 or 5w30. GC is a hair thicker. You could run a 15w50 in there and not beable to feel a difference.
I disagree. When you spend as much time in your truck as I do you can feel the difference. The Tacomas are spec'd for 5w20 since then end of 2006 but the cap and manual say 5w30. I'm telling you, GC put a drag on the motor. I can feel the difference in acceleration already this morning since putting a light Havoline DS 5w30. I can still tell the difference between the 5w30 and the 5w20 I had in there. The Tacomas are very light and that 4.L is borderline high preformance. I can tell. I would love to put it on a dino with all three oils and see what happens.
Originally Posted By: Badlees
I'm going to back pedal on my use of GC in my Tacoma. It didn't work. Honestly, it was too heavy and bogged my engine down at take off. I think the best solution for me is light 5w30 in Summer and 5w20 in Winter. I learned the hard way that my Tacoma did not run very well with GC. It's a fine oil but not for me. Back to dino.
I really cant see GC "bogging" your engine down. The taco calls for a 30 weight. 10w30 or 5w30. GC is a hair thicker. You could run a 15w50 in there and not beable to feel a difference.
I disagree. When you spend as much time in your truck as I do you can feel the difference. The Tacomas are spec'd for 5w20 since then end of 2006 but the cap and manual say 5w30. I'm telling you, GC put a drag on the motor. I can feel the difference in acceleration already this morning since putting a light Havoline DS 5w30. I can still tell the difference between the 5w30 and the 5w20 I had in there. The Tacomas are very light and that 4.L is borderline high preformance. I can tell. I would love to put it on a dino with all three oils and see what happens.
I too, feel the drag especially after Elf Evolution which advertises up to 9% fuel economy. 0w is a good begining but Castrol oil is overcorrective at higher speed cruising on a fuel economy oil capable engine.
I mostly read the UOA sections of the forums, here's how I saw the GC phenomenon develop.
We have a good number of people who contribute UOAs, and some of them are willing to try basically random oils they find on the shelves. American made Castrol Syntec 0W-30 had been tried and didn't show anything remarkable, it just slipped under the radar like a lot of oils. Then with no warning, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 started showing some really good UOAs. When an oil shows a couple good reports, other people want to find out which oil it is and try it in their own vehicle. It was discovered then (I think) that the formula showing the excellent reports was no longer made in the USA, but was imported from Germany (said so on the back of the bottle.) To distinguish between the two oils, which were DRAMATICALLY different, the imported stuff was "German Castrol" or GC for short (we love our abbreviations on BITOG, don't we?) More and more people sought out GC, ran it in their vehicle, and posted the analysis. The UOAs were (or seemed to be) more consistently good than any other oil. No matter the vehicle, and no matter the conditions, GC routinely brought stellar reports, it was really almost surreal for a while. It got to the point of obsession that we noticed a subtle change in the oil at a batch change; from M04 (I think) to M05 (I think) something in the formula changed slightly, even the color of the oil changed. The "good" stuff was "green" GC, the "bad" stuff was "yellow" or "gold." Ultimately I think gold GC redeemed itself after a number of UOAs came back good.
This all happened early in the life of BITOG, and was more or less the first finding of any consequence. Since then we have more and more people contributing reports, and we go through cycles of oils that we like because they seem to give good UOAs. Pennzoil Platinum (PP) is one notable oil that rose to favor because of excellent reports, easy availability, and low price. There was a time I used Havoline conventional in almost everything because it was super cheap and gave good UOAs. I think it has fallen slightly from it's mantle, but I still trust it.
I hope that was at the very least entertaining, if not informative. I have two things in conclusion; GC is mighty fine oil in almost every application out there; and visit the UOA section and contribute your own UOAs! The more people contributing the more reliable the conclusions we create.
We have a good number of people who contribute UOAs, and some of them are willing to try basically random oils they find on the shelves. American made Castrol Syntec 0W-30 had been tried and didn't show anything remarkable, it just slipped under the radar like a lot of oils. Then with no warning, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 started showing some really good UOAs. When an oil shows a couple good reports, other people want to find out which oil it is and try it in their own vehicle. It was discovered then (I think) that the formula showing the excellent reports was no longer made in the USA, but was imported from Germany (said so on the back of the bottle.) To distinguish between the two oils, which were DRAMATICALLY different, the imported stuff was "German Castrol" or GC for short (we love our abbreviations on BITOG, don't we?) More and more people sought out GC, ran it in their vehicle, and posted the analysis. The UOAs were (or seemed to be) more consistently good than any other oil. No matter the vehicle, and no matter the conditions, GC routinely brought stellar reports, it was really almost surreal for a while. It got to the point of obsession that we noticed a subtle change in the oil at a batch change; from M04 (I think) to M05 (I think) something in the formula changed slightly, even the color of the oil changed. The "good" stuff was "green" GC, the "bad" stuff was "yellow" or "gold." Ultimately I think gold GC redeemed itself after a number of UOAs came back good.
This all happened early in the life of BITOG, and was more or less the first finding of any consequence. Since then we have more and more people contributing reports, and we go through cycles of oils that we like because they seem to give good UOAs. Pennzoil Platinum (PP) is one notable oil that rose to favor because of excellent reports, easy availability, and low price. There was a time I used Havoline conventional in almost everything because it was super cheap and gave good UOAs. I think it has fallen slightly from it's mantle, but I still trust it.
I hope that was at the very least entertaining, if not informative. I have two things in conclusion; GC is mighty fine oil in almost every application out there; and visit the UOA section and contribute your own UOAs! The more people contributing the more reliable the conclusions we create.
Originally Posted By: nicrfe1370
I mostly read the UOA sections of the forums, here's how I saw the GC phenomenon develop.
We have a good number of people who contribute UOAs, and some of them are willing to try basically random oils they find on the shelves. American made Castrol Syntec 0W-30 had been tried and didn't show anything remarkable, it just slipped under the radar like a lot of oils. Then with no warning, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 started showing some really good UOAs. When an oil shows a couple good reports, other people want to find out which oil it is and try it in their own vehicle. It was discovered then (I think) that the formula showing the excellent reports was no longer made in the USA, but was imported from Germany (said so on the back of the bottle.) To distinguish between the two oils, which were DRAMATICALLY different, the imported stuff was "German Castrol" or GC for short (we love our abbreviations on BITOG, don't we?) More and more people sought out GC, ran it in their vehicle, and posted the analysis. The UOAs were (or seemed to be) more consistently good than any other oil. No matter the vehicle, and no matter the conditions, GC routinely brought stellar reports, it was really almost surreal for a while. It got to the point of obsession that we noticed a subtle change in the oil at a batch change; from M04 (I think) to M05 (I think) something in the formula changed slightly, even the color of the oil changed. The "good" stuff was "green" GC, the "bad" stuff was "yellow" or "gold." Ultimately I think gold GC redeemed itself after a number of UOAs came back good.
This all happened early in the life of BITOG, and was more or less the first finding of any consequence. Since then we have more and more people contributing reports, and we go through cycles of oils that we like because they seem to give good UOAs. Pennzoil Platinum (PP) is one notable oil that rose to favor because of excellent reports, easy availability, and low price. There was a time I used Havoline conventional in almost everything because it was super cheap and gave good UOAs. I think it has fallen slightly from it's mantle, but I still trust it.
I hope that was at the very least entertaining, if not informative. I have two things in conclusion; GC is mighty fine oil in almost every application out there; and visit the UOA section and contribute your own UOAs! The more people contributing the more reliable the conclusions we create.
nice summary
I mostly read the UOA sections of the forums, here's how I saw the GC phenomenon develop.
We have a good number of people who contribute UOAs, and some of them are willing to try basically random oils they find on the shelves. American made Castrol Syntec 0W-30 had been tried and didn't show anything remarkable, it just slipped under the radar like a lot of oils. Then with no warning, Castrol Syntec 0W-30 started showing some really good UOAs. When an oil shows a couple good reports, other people want to find out which oil it is and try it in their own vehicle. It was discovered then (I think) that the formula showing the excellent reports was no longer made in the USA, but was imported from Germany (said so on the back of the bottle.) To distinguish between the two oils, which were DRAMATICALLY different, the imported stuff was "German Castrol" or GC for short (we love our abbreviations on BITOG, don't we?) More and more people sought out GC, ran it in their vehicle, and posted the analysis. The UOAs were (or seemed to be) more consistently good than any other oil. No matter the vehicle, and no matter the conditions, GC routinely brought stellar reports, it was really almost surreal for a while. It got to the point of obsession that we noticed a subtle change in the oil at a batch change; from M04 (I think) to M05 (I think) something in the formula changed slightly, even the color of the oil changed. The "good" stuff was "green" GC, the "bad" stuff was "yellow" or "gold." Ultimately I think gold GC redeemed itself after a number of UOAs came back good.
This all happened early in the life of BITOG, and was more or less the first finding of any consequence. Since then we have more and more people contributing reports, and we go through cycles of oils that we like because they seem to give good UOAs. Pennzoil Platinum (PP) is one notable oil that rose to favor because of excellent reports, easy availability, and low price. There was a time I used Havoline conventional in almost everything because it was super cheap and gave good UOAs. I think it has fallen slightly from it's mantle, but I still trust it.
I hope that was at the very least entertaining, if not informative. I have two things in conclusion; GC is mighty fine oil in almost every application out there; and visit the UOA section and contribute your own UOAs! The more people contributing the more reliable the conclusions we create.
nice summary
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
Current VOA for both are a little hard to find. Here's what I've come up with, please holler if I've missed some data.
(Sorry for the ugly formatting, the tabs went into the bit bucket.)
GC / M1HM1030
Pour Point: -61*C -54
Flash Point: 238*C 231
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5 78.2
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1 11.79
HTHS: 3.6 3.66
TBN: 10.6 9.87
VI: 179 146
Ag 0 1
Al 0 0
Bo 0? * 226
Ba 0 0
Ca 1957 3215
Cd 0 0
Cr 0 0
Co 0
Fe 1 1
K 0 1
Mg 0/492?** 17
Mn 0 0
Mo 0 87
Na 0 8
Ni 0 0
P 933 926
Pb 0 0
S 6 2005
Sb 0 1
Si 6 7
Sn 0 0
Ti 0 0
V 0 0
Zn 1160 1026
* This seems odd. Zero? Has anyone ever seen Boron in GC?
** A 2005 sample tested 492 ppm; more recent analysis seem to show 0.
As an aside, I'd rather spend my $ on a US product, even if the company is the obnoxious XOM. Being out of work, I can't quite justify spending $40 on Redline.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
Current VOA for both are a little hard to find. Here's what I've come up with, please holler if I've missed some data.
(Sorry for the ugly formatting, the tabs went into the bit bucket.)
GC / M1HM1030
Pour Point: -61*C -54
Flash Point: 238*C 231
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5 78.2
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1 11.79
HTHS: 3.6 3.66
TBN: 10.6 9.87
VI: 179 146
Ag 0 1
Al 0 0
Bo 0? * 226
Ba 0 0
Ca 1957 3215
Cd 0 0
Cr 0 0
Co 0
Fe 1 1
K 0 1
Mg 0/492?** 17
Mn 0 0
Mo 0 87
Na 0 8
Ni 0 0
P 933 926
Pb 0 0
S 6 2005
Sb 0 1
Si 6 7
Sn 0 0
Ti 0 0
V 0 0
Zn 1160 1026
* This seems odd. Zero? Has anyone ever seen Boron in GC?
** A 2005 sample tested 492 ppm; more recent analysis seem to show 0.
As an aside, I'd rather spend my $ on a US product, even if the company is the obnoxious XOM. Being out of work, I can't quite justify spending $40 on Redline.
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Originally Posted By: Geonerd
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
That brings up another interesting thing that has been learned in the oil analysis sections; the VOA of an oil does not help you predict how well that oil will perform. If higher concentrations of AW additives made that big a difference, most of us would be running one of the motorcycle oils with Zinc and Phosphorus numbers that approach and even exceed 2000ppm! It's the whole package that matters; from the selecting and blending of the base oils, to the quality and diversity of the additives and how they work in harmony with the base oils.
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
That brings up another interesting thing that has been learned in the oil analysis sections; the VOA of an oil does not help you predict how well that oil will perform. If higher concentrations of AW additives made that big a difference, most of us would be running one of the motorcycle oils with Zinc and Phosphorus numbers that approach and even exceed 2000ppm! It's the whole package that matters; from the selecting and blending of the base oils, to the quality and diversity of the additives and how they work in harmony with the base oils.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Cold performance.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
If only VOAs and physical characteristics told the whole story...
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Cold performance.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
If only VOAs and physical characteristics told the whole story...
I think the general idea is that an "oil" is made from it's base ingredients and it's additive package. It isn't just one or the other that make a great "oil" but rather the whole combination. The whole combination can't be seen by looking at a VOA.
Originally Posted By: Geonerd
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
Current VOA for both are a little hard to find. Here's what I've come up with, please holler if I've missed some data.
(Sorry for the ugly formatting, the tabs went into the bit bucket.)
GC / M1HM1030
Pour Point: -61*C -54
Flash Point: 238*C 231
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5 78.2
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1 11.79
HTHS: 3.6 3.66
TBN: 10.6 9.87
VI: 179 146
Ag 0 1
Al 0 0
Bo 0? * 226
Ba 0 0
Ca 1957 3215
Cd 0 0
Cr 0 0
Co 0
Fe 1 1
K 0 1
Mg 0/492?** 17
Mn 0 0
Mo 0 87
Na 0 8
Ni 0 0
P 933 926
Pb 0 0
S 6 2005
Sb 0 1
Si 6 7
Sn 0 0
Ti 0 0
V 0 0
Zn 1160 1026
* This seems odd. Zero? Has anyone ever seen Boron in GC?
** A 2005 sample tested 492 ppm; more recent analysis seem to show 0.
As an aside, I'd rather spend my $ on a US product, even if the company is the obnoxious XOM. Being out of work, I can't quite justify spending $40 on Redline.
As a few other people said here, that VOAs by themselves aren't everything, and that an oil should be judged on its performance, etc. And they are all correct regardless of whether or not you think they're going touchy feely and such, but if you really look objectively at the figures you put up, it's plain to see that GC bests M1 in pour point, flash point, VI, TBN, cold performance, etc. Though maybe not by a large margin, but significant nonetheless, IMHO.
I don't see what it has over Mobil's sleeper 10w-30 High Mileage mix.
Apart from an extra dosh of Zn/P and slightly lower pour point (a little more PAO?), 'Zee Oil' is in no way superior.
Current VOA for both are a little hard to find. Here's what I've come up with, please holler if I've missed some data.
(Sorry for the ugly formatting, the tabs went into the bit bucket.)
GC / M1HM1030
Pour Point: -61*C -54
Flash Point: 238*C 231
Viscosity @ 40*C: 68.5 78.2
Viscosity @ 100*C: 12.1 11.79
HTHS: 3.6 3.66
TBN: 10.6 9.87
VI: 179 146
Ag 0 1
Al 0 0
Bo 0? * 226
Ba 0 0
Ca 1957 3215
Cd 0 0
Cr 0 0
Co 0
Fe 1 1
K 0 1
Mg 0/492?** 17
Mn 0 0
Mo 0 87
Na 0 8
Ni 0 0
P 933 926
Pb 0 0
S 6 2005
Sb 0 1
Si 6 7
Sn 0 0
Ti 0 0
V 0 0
Zn 1160 1026
* This seems odd. Zero? Has anyone ever seen Boron in GC?
** A 2005 sample tested 492 ppm; more recent analysis seem to show 0.
As an aside, I'd rather spend my $ on a US product, even if the company is the obnoxious XOM. Being out of work, I can't quite justify spending $40 on Redline.
As a few other people said here, that VOAs by themselves aren't everything, and that an oil should be judged on its performance, etc. And they are all correct regardless of whether or not you think they're going touchy feely and such, but if you really look objectively at the figures you put up, it's plain to see that GC bests M1 in pour point, flash point, VI, TBN, cold performance, etc. Though maybe not by a large margin, but significant nonetheless, IMHO.
Just did a oil change in my Tacoma yesterday.
I've tried Pennzoil YB, Pennzoil PP, Amsoil, Royal Purple, Havoline, NAPA Syn, Valvoline WB, Mobil 1, Rotella, Rotella Syn and Shell Dino all in different weights. MOTORCRAFT 5w20 has by far been the oil I like the most. The truck runs better on a heavy 5w20 (MotorCraft) or a light 5w30 (Havloline dino). I have 70k on my truck and it took that long to find the right oil. Just my opinion for my driving style, commute and price.
2007 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L
2007 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L
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