Creaky floors

[JHZR2]

I live in an old house. I love old homes. One mistake they made in mine to cut cost is that they didn't put down a subfloor under the hardwood floor. My parents home, which is maybe 10 years older, has a diagonally-laid subfloor. Very sturdy.

My home just has .75" tongue and groove flooring against the joists.

Problem is on the lower floors in the winter, they get creaky.

What is the best way to sure up some of the noticable areas

Thanks!

 

[hate2work]

If the squeak is between the boards, believe it or not talcum powder will help quite a bit. Spread it on liberally and sweep it around, trying to get it down between the boards.

If the squeak is between the boards and the joists, that's a little harder. Sometimes you need to re-nail, sometimes just getting under there and putting a shim between the floor and the joist does the trick.

 

[Shannow]

Jam bit of asbestos fibro sheeting under it ???

It's how they fixed them in this district.

 

[JOD]

Thick shag carpet will do the trick. Problem solved!

Do you have access to the underside of the floors or is that ceiling covered? If so, you can screw in some 1"x4"'s up along the joist, screwing in every 6" or so--that works wonders. I'd try the talcum power trick first though, and shim any obvious spots (again, assuming you have access). If you don't have access and the talcum powder doesn't work, I think you'll just have to live with it.

My previous house was like this. My current house has dimensional 1"x8"shiplap as subflooring! Man, it's rock solid--not a peep out of a 110 year old floor.

 

[LeakySeals]

There are 2 ways
1)Just screw on an angle through the joist and catch the wood in that area. Will pull it down snug. Or add a 1x2 for that purpose. long screw into the joist, short into the wood.
2) Add strength so the floor doesn't sag. Add support reinforcements, either "sistering" the joists, or adding 90' support 2X12X16 shims to add strength. Those are simply screwed in at the joists.

 

[Stu_Rock]

One thing that I have read is to get a subfloor adhesive (AFG-01 or D3498 rated) and "caulk" a bead of it along each side of the joists where they meet the underside of the floor.

This was in sales literature for subfloor adhesive, to take it with a grain of salt. Maybe buy one tube and see if it makes a difference.

 

[oppirs]

I love creaky everything in my 1900 house, ect when mice run around. I wish it would be haunted but not.

 

[JHZR2]

Thanks everyone!

It's kind of odd because it is really just one (smaller) room creaks.

It's not the creak that really gets me, it's the combination of that with what feels like wobbly floorboards, and substructure I guess.

It's only one room. It may be because the room next to it has a top layer floor (laminate - yuck) that the PO installed (and will be coming out at some poi t). It adds weight to the floor and perhaps the side that I'm concerned with gets effected by it. Just thinking out loud.

I can access underneath, but generally not to be able to put 2x12 cross supports up. The house as original has "x" bracing made of wood between the joists. The joists may be somewhat undersized, I think they are 2x10.

I like the 1x4 diagonally screwed approach, as I can access and do it. Would sistering a 1 or 2x4 to each joist to add stiffness be of utility, or do they need to be real width? I was thinking that to nail one to the bottom of each would stiffen up the flex a bit. If the sister doesn't go the full width (ie from the center beam to the sill plate), is sistering worthless? Or does it still provide useful structure?

If I have higher mass on a floor due to, for example, the laminate floor on the other room, should I wait to remove that to have the floor lighter loaded before doing the sistering?

Thanks!

 

[eljefino]

If you rip some plywood and spike it against your existing joists, that would add some stiffness in the style of modern "parallam" engineered beams. This assumes there isn't a spaghetti factory of wires and plumbing running under or through what's there.

I had to run a perpindicular beam under my joists held up by 10-ton screw jacks to take bounce out of my floor/ basement ceiling. The bounce was metal fatiguing heat pipes at their solder joints and causing leaks.

If it's the lack of humidity making things creak, maybe run a humidfier in the room? Not the basement, obviously, because of mold.

 

[LeakySeals]

x braces were used in new construction to keep the joists in place while nailing floor boards. Means they really aren't doing anything for you now, you can rip the x braces out and substitute for 2X12 crosses that support the floor, no problem. Using your floor jack and a 2X4 under the joist crosses, just apply pressure with the jack, screw them in.

Sister support for a sagging joist is thickness, so its "next to" not under if that makes sense. Best way to sister is out to the sill. Next best is logger/sister "most" of the area. Jack the floor up 1/2" in the problem area using your floor jack and a 2X4 under the joist. Add the sisters via logger bolt, drop it. You can also logger 1/2" steel to the joist, the method I prefer. But once again, the x braces will go.

 

[JHZR2]

Wow, jack the floor 1/2"! My floor is flat, just bounces and some of the hardwood is slightly loose. If it's just a bounce, do I still want to jack?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
x braces were used in new construction to keep the joists in place while nailing floor boards. Means they really aren't doing anything for you now, you can rip the x braces out and substitute for 2X12 crosses that support the floor, no problem. Using your floor jack and a 2X4 under the joist crosses, just apply pressure with the jack, screw them in.

Sister support for a sagging joist is thickness, so its "next to" not under if that makes sense. Best way to sister is out to the sill. Next best is logger/sister "most" of the area. Jack the floor up 1/2" in the problem area using your floor jack and a 2X4 under the joist. Add the sisters via logger bolt, drop it. You can also logger 1/2" steel to the joist, the method I prefer. But once again, the x braces will go.


So those X's are useless? Interesting!

A full depth cross piece is tough because I do have tons of wires going along many of these... So what's the best bet? Two 2x4s one on top by the floor, the other on the bottom, parallel? Staggered?

I don't understand where you're going on sistering. I don't see that it is in the width. Max stress of a joist is at the underside. A 2x12 should be stiffer than a 2x8. Id think that if width did the job, builders would use 2x4 or 2x6 as joists, and use then doubled... Maybe I'm off, just thought that you go with longer planks 10 or 12 vs 8 or 10". Otherwise why don't we build with 4x4s? Also why then deo we get away with plywood I beams?

Just thinking out loud based upon comments.

Thanks very much!

 

[Clevy]

Those 2x2s in an x shape are called bridging. They are there to help eliminate deflection. If you can access the floor from the basement put a bead of glue on a 2x4. Push it up tight to the floor and nail them.
I am a custom home builder. I can give you a fix but I need pics. Pm me if you want a professional to instruct you on a fix for this issue

 

[JHZR2]

A few images I took:

Main "beam":

The "X's":

This is the underside of the hardwood floor in our home. There is no subfloor:

 

[LeakySeals]

I was giving you different examples to repair a sagging floor. 1/2" to an inch is not as much as you think. Most floors have sagged more than an inch over the years. Using an adjustable lolly-column is another example

But now I have seen pics. Wood looks good and yes the x braces pictured are doing basically nothing for you support wise. knock them out, replace with 2X12's as discussed. Will work out great. depending on how much expansion/contraction you have, be careful locking that hardwood in place.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
You can also logger 1/2" steel to the joist, the method I prefer. But once again, the x braces will go.


Can you tell me more about this method???

Thanks!

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
You can also logger 1/2" steel to the joist, the method I prefer. But once again, the x braces will go.


Can you tell me more about this method???

Thanks!

Sure its called a "Flitch Plate". There are some pics on line where you can see it in use bolted to the outside of a beam. But after looking at your pics I don't see the need, the beams look great. As stated above I would substitute the x braces for solid braces, that will give you more support under the floor and IMO better deflection. Knocking the crosses out and adding solid braces will not effect structure while doing it, what I meant. Or just leave them and add the solid crosses. All depends where the squeak is. I searched and found This Article that better describes (in your case just the solid brace not the sister). But first I'd be off to Lowes for a bracket like this and some small wood screws. Just draw the floor tight to the beam, should do it.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
A few images I took:

Main "beam":

I've got nothing to add but details like this are why old houses are so interesting! No khrappy joist hangers needed and nice tight cuts.