Cost to Heat and Cool our New Home = CHEAP

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

If I'm not mistaken, Residential Roof R-value minimum has been R-50 for 8 -10 years or so. That helps.

The walls can be basically cardboard. South, East and West glass needs to have SHGC of 0.1 or less and that will be helpful in the summer and fall.

If the heat pump an Inverter-driven system or 2-speed?

 

[alarmguy]

alarmguy your place seems pretty efficient. How cool to buy all that built in vs have to retrofit it all.

It took me years of work, over 100K to get my crib to a place where I'm happy with its environmental and thermal performance.

Yeah, it is kind of neat. Not sure if you remember I came from Long Island NY 16 years ago. An area of Nassau county where any home you buy is 60 years old. I know all about spending time re-insulating homes. Never was much fun but the results were.
Granted though, your budget was A LOT bigger than mine!

Our last house on Long Island was half the size of our last home in the south though. That home was the first one we bought in the south and was brand new 16 years ago. I think things even progressed from then, yet still our energy bills were less than Long Island.

This new home is a treat. I sense you are into this stuff as I am so it's not only about saving money but about efficiency and what level you can get it to. I dont think I can do much more, except if I want to allow our electric co-op to control our thermostat up to a couple times a month during peak energy use. They will supply a new thermostat of my choosing and install it. For that they will pay me $5 a month. Sometimes I am tempted not as much for the $5 but right now we have a ZWAVE thermostat. If I ever want to get rid of the builder supplied electronics which has me tied into Amazons Ring network for door locks, garage controller, DB Cam and thermostat now. I would have to switch to a WiFI stat.

As of right now its 80 degrees out, cooler day for sure and cloudy as this weekends rain clouds clear out. But to give an idea, the house is only up to 73 degrees after at 1PM after its automatic change to 77 degrees at 7:45AM (Granted if we are home we will many times lower that to 75 daytime)

I saw your mention of roofs in another post. I am not sure how we compare to my neighbors energy bills, our style model house is the only model with a pyramid type roof which the design made us what this style just based on architectural style of the front and the roof. Dont know why, I just like looking at it *LOL*. The HVAC intake/air exchanger is the silver vent you see.
The photo is taken from the back of the house. You cannot see any vents from the front.

PS. I do want to and will at some point insulate the ceiling of the attached two car garage. I wish they would automatically do it in home construction but it is what it is. Simple enough mostly but still ...

 

[alarmguy]

…fall.

If the heat pump an Inverter-driven system or 2-speed?

Definitely not two speed and it just looks like your typical (drawing a blank on the name of the compressor that I know well lol) compressor in the middle of the coils.
It’s a tall unit at 42 inches x 26 wide. All coils. All around fins.
Production builder stuff. I prefer simplicity most times.

 

[UncleDave]

Great crib AG. Looks pretty dialed in.

I enjoy seeing just how cheap I can get anything to run, and the house is a big one.

I did a Owens corning cool roof, an attic fan, a whole house fan, full attic insulation on the upper rafters and floor. The roof and the Insulation together made a gigantic difference.

I just got the leaky crappy old windows replaced a month ago and am getting my arms around the improvement. I got argon filled double panes with what they called "sun matrix" coating on all south East & West facing windows and so far it's been a massive improvement in temp holding and heat rejection.

I have the lennox sig series variable speed and capacity AC unit, but Im toying with the idea of a heat pump, but Im concerned about a running the house off genset if I need to run electric heat in a power outage. Last years bill for nat gas was about 1,500.00 for the whole year, thats heating , clothes drying, water heating, cooking, and backup power.

Living in the country on a well and septic transfer tank as well as running an irrigation pump the solar was a no brainer for me and I exported about 3 MW last year, but didn't have the irrigation till late season so that will no doubt cut into some of that surplus capacity, but I wont be surrounded by fuel and the might get a bit of heat relief from the respiration of greenery.

I have a a few thermometers spread around the house and an older 4 station "weather" readout with the worst UI in the history of mankind so I don't rename stuff very often and the AM/PM is wrong.

Yesterday was an 80+ degree day.

Upper left - "outside" is actually in the garage.
Lowe left " Porch" is outside on the porch in the shade (till about 5)
Upper right" Upstairs " is right by the guest bed.
Lower right " display" is the unit itself and sitting in my home office.
The blue clock is in the master
The little black remote ins the fireplace remote in the living room.
The thermostat is in the front hallway right outside the 2 other guest bedrooms and bath.

So far so good.

 

[Fitter30]

Can't manage all electric cost. My demand charge is $45 not kwh usage the $45 is just to pay to have electric pays for the company office and lines men. So when looking at the bill are we chatting use or the total bill. Set cost usually is fridge, tv's, dishwasher, fans, lights, computers and demand charge. Mild weather 2 people total electric $100

 

[alarmguy]

Great crib AG. Looks pretty dialed in.

I enjoy seeing just how cheap I can get anything to run, and the house is a big one.

I did a Owens corning cool roof, an attic fan, a whole house fan, full attic insulation on the upper rafters and floor. The roof and the Insulation together made a gigantic difference.

I just got the leaky crappy old windows replaced a month ago and am getting my arms around the improvement. I got argon filled double panes with what they called "sun matrix" coating on all south East & West facing windows and so far it's been a massive improvement in temp holding and heat rejection.

I have the lennox sig series variable speed and capacity AC unit, but Im toying with the idea of a heat pump, but Im concerned about a running the house off genset if I need to run electric heat in a power outage. Last years bill for nat gas was about 1,500.00 for the whole year, thats heating , clothes drying, water heating, cooking, and backup power.

Living in the country on a well and septic transfer tank as well as running an irrigation pump the solar was a no brainer for me and I exported about 3 MW last year, but didn't have the irrigation till late season so that will no doubt cut into some of that surplus capacity, but I wont be surrounded by fuel and the might get a bit of heat relief from the respiration of greenery.

I have a a few thermometers spread around the house and an older 4 station "weather" readout with the worst UI in the history of mankind so I don't rename stuff very often and the AM/PM is wrong.

Yesterday was an 80+ degree day.

Upper left - "outside" is actually in the garage.
Lowe left " Porch" is outside on the porch in the shade (till about 5)
Upper right" Upstairs " is right by the guest bed.
Lower right " display" is the unit itself and sitting in my home office.
The blue clock is in the master
The little black remote ins the fireplace remote in the living room.
The thermostat is in the front hallway right outside the 2 other guest bedrooms and bath.

So far so good.

Somehow I missed this reply until today.
I remember seeing photos of your home. I really like the outdoor landscaping and inviting look of the home. Very nice.
I am having trouble placing the manufacturer of your thermostat. I assume Honeywell with an outdoor sensor?
I wish there was such as thing as a smart thermostat that I could program any aspect of temperature adjustments.
For example, as you know we never open our windows. Our heat/pump evaporator/air handler is in the attic (its just what builders do often around here)

Anyway in the warmer whether like the last couple months pretty much it stays in AC mode.
What I have found myself doing is if the outside air is in the 60s or below at night I manually turn the "Fan" selector on the thermostat from "Auto" to "Cir" So at night, I think every hour for 20 or less minutes (I forget exactly) it will turn on the fan and circulate the air in the house.

This is great, serves two purposes. 1 Gets the more stale air out of the bedroom and replaces it since its cooler outside the unit will not kick on often enough in the "auto" mode. 2. it actually cools the house without the compressor needing to turn on. Since the unit is in the colder attic when the "Fan" mode is turned to "Cir" the fan alone cycling a while every hour is enough to bring cool air from the attic into the house. Meaning the colder attic air makes the duct work and air handler cold and then blows into the house. Anyway. I wish I could put a remote sensor in the attic that would when the attic temp drops to a certain degree automatically switch the fan from "Auto" to "Cir" when the system is set to the cool mode.
The problem is if I forget to switch it back to "Auto" during the daytime it will needlessly pump the hot air down from the attic and prematurely activate the AC unit. Im getting better now, I tell my Apple Watch to remind me to switch it back but it will be cool to make it all automatic. Stuff like that.

I understand the new "Smart" thermostats are for everyday people but I dont think they are smart in saving those people money. I think they are smart in making sure they are comfortable. Even though they are marketed as saving money it's not really true for the way the majority uses them. Meaning never learning the true capabilities. (kind of)

I LIKE THAT ACURITE unit. I may look for one. Traditionally I would have one unit for each item, such as, I would have one with a sensor in the attic, one outdoors and last house in the garage to compare what the difference was after I insulated the ceiling of the garage. Other times, like current home I used them in individual rooms to correctly regulate/adjust the air outlets/vents so temperatures would be reasonably constant through the home. Example would be to make sure guest bedrooms weren't to cold or hot with the doors closed etc.

Hope this all makes sense, burned out in BITOG today and have landscaping in the yard to work on. Been planting and rearranging the builder supplied sprinkler system around the new landscaping.

 

[mattd]

My electric bill would be triple what yours is for the same usage. Mine is very similar as far as power consumption. My ac (heat pump split system) is set to 68 in the summer. My wife lovesit cold.

Winter hvac will be mostly wood stove with some boiler use (if needed) and heat pump. So power consumption isn’t bad either summer or winter. With home solar i don’t have much of a bill if any from March to November

 

[UncleDave]

Somehow I missed this reply until today.
I remember seeing photos of your home. I really like the outdoor landscaping and inviting look of the home. Very nice.
I am having trouble placing the manufacturer of your thermostat. I assume Honeywell with an outdoor sensor?
I wish there was such as thing as a smart thermostat that I could program any aspect of temperature adjustments.
For example, as you know we never open our windows. Our heat/pump evaporator/air handler is in the attic (its just what builders do often around here)

Anyway in the warmer whether like the last couple months pretty much it stays in AC mode.
What I have found myself doing is if the outside air is in the 60s or below at night I manually turn the "Fan" selector on the thermostat from "Auto" to "Cir" So at night, I think every hour for 20 or less minutes (I forget exactly) it will turn on the fan and circulate the air in the house.

This is great, serves two purposes. 1 Gets the more stale air out of the bedroom and replaces it since its cooler outside the unit will not kick on often enough in the "auto" mode. 2. it actually cools the house without the compressor needing to turn on. Since the unit is in the colder attic when the "Fan" mode is turned to "Cir" the fan alone cycling a while every hour is enough to bring cool air from the attic into the house. Meaning the colder attic air makes the duct work and air handler cold and then blows into the house. Anyway. I wish I could put a remote sensor in the attic that would when the attic temp drops to a certain degree automatically switch the fan from "Auto" to "Cir" when the system is set to the cool mode.
The problem is if I forget to switch it back to "Auto" during the daytime it will needlessly pump the hot air down from the attic and prematurely activate the AC unit. Im getting better now, I tell my Apple Watch to remind me to switch it back but it will be cool to make it all automatic. Stuff like that.

I understand the new "Smart" thermostats are for everyday people but I dont think they are smart in saving those people money. I think they are smart in making sure they are comfortable. Even though they are marketed as saving money it's not really true for the way the majority uses them. Meaning never learning the true capabilities. (kind of)

I LIKE THAT ACURITE unit. I may look for one. Traditionally I would have one unit for each item, such as, I would have one with a sensor in the attic, one outdoors and last house in the garage to compare what the difference was after I insulated the ceiling of the garage. Other times, like current home I used them in individual rooms to correctly regulate/adjust the air outlets/vents so temperatures would be reasonably constant through the home. Example would be to make sure guest bedrooms weren't to cold or hot with the doors closed etc.

Hope this all makes sense, burned out in BITOG today and have landscaping in the yard to work on. Been planting and rearranging the builder supplied sprinkler system around the new landscaping.

Thanks, we're enjoying this crib. The discovery of water allotment / rights and the upgrades has been transformational.

Aside for the worlds worst UI on this one the acu-rite is a fun and modest gift from my parents Ive gotten a lot of use out of. I'd like a few more stations, but I'll wait till this one dies before upgrading, I'd really like each room as well as the attic and air handler area - also in an attic, but I have two attics in this place, one houses the air handler, the other is storage over the garage and what's currently my home office.

This T stat is Lennox's house brand, it could be made by Honeywell, but Im not certain. It has a modest amount of programmability but this particular unit falls short of what Id like and what the hardware is capable of - like a seemingly simply schedule for the upstairs only, I can keep the entire house cool just by keeping the upstairs cool.

I totally get what you mean by circulating on and off keeping rooms fresh my air handler has an enormous super high quality Merv 16 carbon in it that basically scrubs the house as well as being pretty widely variable in speed - not infinite, but pretty wide Ive seen it pull as few as 2 amps.

It sounds like you've dialed in a regimen thats pretty optimal. Love tuning and tweaking things like you are doing.

I'm a little surprised that your attic air is cooler than the rest of the house though.
Unless you don't start till close to morning after the attic has cooled?

Even with insulation on the ceiling rafter and tons of soffit and a vent ridge CFM mine isnt. I did put an attic fan in additionally and it doesnt even kick in until at least 100 outside air - it's astoundingly better after all that and the cool roof.

On the closed window strategy - I like that a lot for reducing particles.
Keeps the house temps consistent, moves the air around, leverages holistic efficiencies, and "tightness" as well as cheap juice. Where does the fresh make up air come from? Do you have an HRV (I think thats what thy are called)

Ive avoided Ac use 100% so far this year.
Im using the whole house fan as a 380 watt air conditioner at night with open windows pulling air through the house
I pull it down to 64 before shutting off- we could pull it down further on cool nights but thats the optimum temp for us.
Then the house slowly gains heat till we repeat at night again

Yesterday it was 90 in the shade,100 in the sun and my 2nd story was holding 81, and the lower part of the house was still in the low 70's at sundown.

Chat when you get back from chores- I havent bitogged as much as I used to, just super busy with life.

Best sir!

 

[alarmguy]

...

I totally get what you mean by circulating on and off keeping rooms fresh my air handler has an enormous super high quality Merv 16 carbon in it that basically scrubs the house as well as being pretty widely variable in speed - not infinite, but pretty wide Ive seen it pull as few as 2 amps.

It sounds like you've dialed in a regimen thats pretty optimal. Love tuning and tweaking things like you are doing.

I'm a little surprised that your attic air is cooler than the rest of the house though.
Unless you don't start till close to morning after the attic has cooled?

Even with insulation on the ceiling rafter and tons of soffit and a vent ridge CFM mine isnt. I did put an attic fan in additionally and it doesnt even kick in until at least 100 outside air - it's astoundingly better after all that and the cool roof.

On the closed window strategy - I like that a lot for reducing particles.
Keeps the house temps consistent, moves the air around, leverages holistic efficiencies, and "tightness" as well as cheap juice. Where does the fresh make up air come from? Do you have an HRV (I think thats what thy are called)

...

Yeah, I should have clarified in "type" my mind was clear but did not transpose to the post.This is why I was wishing for a true programmable thermostat, in the sense that I can add devices to it and program it the way I want it to operate.

As far as the unit fan being set to "CiR" for circulate ... you are correct. The attic is only cool early morning like 2AM ish. This is only if the outside air is down to the 50s and lower 60s.
So if and when I wake up at night, if I see it is cool outside I set it to CIR at that time.
Then turn it off CIR when I get up in the morning. If I had a true programable thermostat I would be able to program it using an external temperature sensor mounted in the attic to turn the fan to CIR if the attic temperature drops to lets say somewhere in the 60s (or lower) and the thermostat the mode is set to AC. This will bring in the cool air from the duct work and air handler unit as the attic cooled it down.
Then in CIR mode the fan shuts off after 15 or 20 minutes and comes back on an hour later, enough time that the ducts and air handler contain cool air again. In the last home I knew how my attic temps ran and this thread is a reminder that I still have to put a sensor up there.

The whole fresh air thing is new to me. In our main HVAC return grill box where we have the air filter when you remove the filter you see the huge intake duct, well, there is a second small 6 inch intake duct with a flap that opens and closes automatically. When the unit turns on the flap opens and draws in not only the house air but outside air to mix in.

When I change the AC filter next month I will take a photo. Its kind of neat, not sure what its called other then outside air duct *LOL* If I get ambitious I will take a photo sooner. Its just that my return box is in my 11 foot high ceiling and need to get a 10 foot ladder form the garage to open it.
We also have a return duct with filter in the Master at a lower height but that doesnt draw in outside air.

SO we have the main filter, then under that a 6x6 inch second filter for the outside air coming in.
I previously posted a photo of the roof on post #22 if you look at this photo that shiny vent at the extreme right to lower corner is the intake for the HVAC air handler. fFom that shiny air intake on the roof is ductwork to the main intake air box with the electronic air control flap. (photo next month)

 

[UncleDave]

Yeah, I should have clarified in "type" my mind was clear but did not transpose to the post.This is why I was wishing for a true programmable thermostat, in the sense that I can add devices to it and program it the way I want it to operate.

As far as the unit fan being set to "CiR" for circulate ... you are correct. The attic is only cool early morning like 2AM ish. This is only if the outside air is down to the 50s and lower 60s.
So if and when I wake up at night, if I see it is cool outside I set it to CIR at that time.
Then turn it off CIR when I get up in the morning. If I had a true programable thermostat I would be able to program it using an external temperature sensor mounted in the attic to turn the fan to CIR if the attic temperature drops to lets say somewhere in the 60s (or lower) and the thermostat the mode is set to AC. This will bring in the cool air from the duct work and air handler unit as the attic cooled it down.
Then in CIR mode the fan shuts off after 15 or 20 minutes and comes back on an hour later, enough time that the ducts and air handler contain cool air again. In the last home I knew how my attic temps ran and this thread is a reminder that I still have to put a sensor up there.

The whole fresh air thing is new to me. In our main HVAC return grill box where we have the air filter when you remove the filter you see the huge intake duct, well, there is a second small 6 inch intake duct with a flap that opens and closes automatically. When the unit turns on the flap opens and draws in not only the house air but outside air to mix in.

When I change the AC filter next month I will take a photo. Its kind of neat, not sure what its called other then outside air duct *LOL* If I get ambitious I will take a photo sooner. Its just that my return box is in my 11 foot high ceiling and need to get a 10 foot ladder form the garage to open it.
We also have a return duct with filter in the Master at a lower height but that doesnt draw in outside air.

SO we have the main filter, then under that a 6x6 inch second filter for the outside air coming in.
I previously posted a photo of the roof on post #22 if you look at this photo that shiny vent at the extreme right to lower corner is the intake for the HVAC air handler. fFom that shiny air intake on the roof is ductwork to the main intake air box with the electronic air control flap. (photo next month)

Makes sense - run circulation mode when the handler is cold so everything that passes through it drops temp so you get the cooling effect on top of the de stratifying the house.

The fresh air thing is new to me as well. Iv only seen it in HRV's so its cool you have that.

Filter sounds like a pain to get at. This crib has the filter in the handler which just slides out easy peasy, but not filtering at the return allows the ductwork to get cruddy.

Hope you are performing tip top sir. Eager to hear how the summer goes for you.

I'm pretty impressed with my places ability to hold back temps. With no AC I can hold over a 27 degree delta between the second floor and the roof and 31 between the lower level of the house and the roof temp. The bedroom stays a few degrees cooler. The hottest day so far was 6/7 well see if this current wave hits worse. all the little stuff and whole house fan really add up to stellar performance.