Cost to Heat and Cool our New Home = CHEAP

[alarmguy]

Im just slow thanks.
I see the filter housing/bracket on the damped duct.

Who makes that little filter?

I got concerned about that. All I did was a search for a 6 x 6 air filter and got lucky, had to buy it in a quantity of 12 which will last quite some time. I knew they existed as the installer had one in there.
Brand wasnt a concern and I got them from Granger. My only concern was to make sure dirt from outside wasnt getting into the evaporator coils.

It was interesting as there was no filter and no mounting bracket there when we bought the house. A home inspector picked up on it and my builder sent the HVAC company back to install it. First time in my life I ever hired a home inspector. Around the 9th month of our one year bumper to bumper new home warranty we hired one known in the area.
Good news was there was no glaring issues except for one, a missing ground wire on the propane system, but there was a laundry list of about 12 items to be corrected and the 6 x 6 filter and bracket install was one of them. All we have to do was PDF the laundry list to the builder and each item was taken care of.

The national production builder has blown us away on how responsive they have been to every one of our concerns, including stuff that did not have to be done but they did it for us anyway. One example was they moved the thermostat for us last year which involved not only the HVAC guys but dry wall and paint. It was too central on the wall and I wanted to put a fish tank there.

A story for another day and a different subject is we just moved out of the house for 3 days two weeks ago, all furniture had to be moved out of every room into POD in the driveway. They installed a whole house of new upgraded flooring as we had problems with the existing. They paid for everything including 3 days at airbnb, meals, movers, storage POD,

When we first moved in we weren't happy with the driveway concrete, within two months they tore our the entire 2 car driveway and front walk and installed new. I will say, their responsiveness was a welcome relief, some of this stuff should not have happened but not once on any of it were we questioned or denied anything.

 

[ecotourist]

Another thing that might help with summer heat is power ventilating the attic (so called "Saskatchewan air conditioning"). It gets really hot in the attic and passive ventilation can only do so much. There are gable end units and roof units. I've never had one so I can't comment on whether they make noise or vibration or whether there are reliability issues.

I understand that in India they used to (and maybe still) mist water onto the roof on hot days to cool it. A low tech way to cool your house or reduce cooling costs.

 

[UncleDave]

Another thing that might help with summer heat is power ventilating the attic (so called "Saskatchewan air conditioning"). It gets really hot in the attic and passive ventilation can only do so much. There are gable end units and roof units. I've never had one so I can't comment on whether they make noise or vibration or whether there are reliability issues.

I understand that in India they used to (and maybe still) mist water onto the roof on hot days to cool it. A low tech way to cool your house or reduce cooling costs.

This strategy is unbelievably controversial, with guys like Joe Lsturbek from Owens corning claiming it's a complete waste of time and energy and others swearing just the opposite.

From what I can tell Joes position comes from many that fail to properly address the amount of open ventilation area required to accommodate a powered fan and end up pulling cold air out of the house under a vacuum.

What I can say from my experience is that with the proper amount of of open space it makes a notable difference in the attic temp overnight.

I put in a high quality centric air gable fan and cannot hear it from the inside at all.

 

[Donald]

I see posts and the mention of new construction homes. I would suggest a lower cost state and a builder like national production builders Lennar who formulate their construction on energy efficiency.

Now in our new home just over one year. It is a smaller home vs our last one, just my wife and I @1800 sq ft
HVAC is a heat pump. Hot Water Gas, Gas Cooktop, Electric Oven and a gas fireplace. (gas is propane)
Sidewalls have R-15, Attic oh heck I dont know, a LOT, r31 at least. Low E windows. Low flow and high efficiency fixtures and toilets.
(and the toilets work incredible somehow)

There is also an air infiltration certification done by an independent agency and the test results are posted on our electric panel. I have no idea what it means other than it must be good. Never took the time to look into it. Also because the home is air tight (I guess) the main HVAC air return duct has an intake outside air duct under the air filter within the main return duct that opens up and lets outside air in when the unit turns on which has its own 6inch x 6inch filter to filter that air.

It is STUPID cheap for energy. I literally laugh to myself typing this because I just added up one years electric bill. 12 months = $1,190. including all the other charges, Base of 29.75 a month taxes etc)
Less than $100 a month in a home where we NEVER open the windows. That is heat or air-conditioning every day of the year.
I still cant wrap my head around how cheap and the way the house is designed seems so efficient. Anyway, very happy. Though our last home was new (now 16 years old) 3000 sq ft and new when we bought it too. So taking a step down to the smaller home and newer standards is a big difference.

Example, warm weather we do turn the thermostat down at night in the summer to 72 while we sleep and for the most part 75 but up to 77 during the daytime. Well, sometimes it takes half a day or more (by dinner time) for the house to get up to that 75 to 77 before the AC clicks on. It still is early in the year and the ground cool but it gives an idea.

Winter we set the stat at 73 while awake and 65 while we sleep. We used to have it go lower but found out with this heat pump on a 24 degree day it's not as efficient trying to get from nighttime temps to daytime.

I still look for ways to get it lower but do not think that is possible.

View attachment 220073

I see homes being built by the hundreds in southern Delaware by the major home home builders. Cookie cutter houses. Most use building wrap not zip board. PEX for plumbing, cheap electrical and Goodman A/C. Unsure why they are doing road construction running natural gas lines. Just go with all electric heat pumps. The houses look nice if you like cookie cutter developments. But are built cheaply. Could be better built and more energy efficient.

 

[SHOZ]

I put a dark roof on and the temps went through the roof. Finally took out my vent screens and replaced with 1/4", they were all window screen backed. Then got rid of the louvers. On one end I have a power fan ventilator that comes on at 120f and blow in ambient air. Works great and the highest temps I've seen up there are low 130fs.

 

[UncleDave]

Today really put the cool roof and insulation to the test.

The little apple speakers have sensors in them.

The office is right below the attic, the bedroom has a high ceiling and a room above it on the second floor as a barrier.

There is no AC running.

 

[tbm5690]

This strategy is unbelievably controversial, with guys like Joe Lsturbek from Owens corning claiming it's a complete waste of time and energy and others swearing just the opposite.

From what I can tell Joes position comes from many that fail to properly address the amount of open ventilation area required to accommodate a powered fan and end up pulling cold air out of the house under a vacuum.

What I can say from my experience is that with the proper amount of of open space it makes a notable difference in the attic temp overnight.

I put in a high quality centric air gable fan and cannot hear it from the inside at all.

Yeah, I have a power vent in the roof and I'd rather have static vents. Questionable effectivity, motors don't last more than a few years, and the thermostats/humidistats that run them are questionable at best with accuracy. All the homes around here built in the late 90s/early 00s like mine have them and now all you see on new is plentiful amounts of static box vents.

 

[alarmguy]

I’m still jealous of your low usage… I used 1,023kWh last month which cost $200.

Thats a lot of usage for way up north are does it get really hot there in the summer? 90+ degree days?

I thought I would update you and others.
Having been in this new home for 15 months I just blew past June of 2023 in our latest June 2024 bill. Temperature wise it was warmer and we do keep the thermostat 1 degree cooler, also this month of June 2023 the front door was open a significant amount of time like 9 hours a day over a three day period while our builder tore out all of our laminate flooring that was in EVERY room of the house, re-installed a top upgraded laminate because of issues we were having. Also 1 day before that 3 day period and 1 day after movers were here moving out all our furniture and then moving all our furniture back in.
Yet I look at the usage for those days and it wasnt horribly off the scale but had to in some way increase out cost.
SO here it is and still valid for my OP. It's still cheap but we used gosh 50% more electricity.

 

[Skippy722]

Thats a lot of usage for way up north are does it get really hot there in the summer? 90+ degree days?

I thought I would update you and others.
Having been in this new home for 15 months I just blew past June of 2023 in our latest June 2024 bill. Temperature wise it was warmer and we do keep the thermostat 1 degree cooler, also this month of June 2023 the front door was open a significant amount of time like 9 hours a day over a three day period while our builder tore out all of our laminate flooring that was in EVERY room of the house, re-installed a top upgraded laminate because of issues we were having. Also 1 day before that 3 day period and 1 day after movers were here moving out all our furniture and then moving all our furniture back in.
Yet I look at the usage for those days and it wasnt horribly off the scale but had to in some way increase out cost.
SO here it is and still valid for my OP. It's still cheap but we used gosh 50% more electricity.

View attachment 228679

4 boys and yes, 90+ days lol… my record is almost 1600kWh

 

[alarmguy]

4 boys and yes, 90+ days lol… my record is almost 1600kWh

We were at 1,230 kWh same period in 2022 in our last home which was 16 years old before we moved to the new one. So I guess we still did good there as that home was 1200 sq ft larger.

I dont know our all time highest use at the old house, I still have access to the history for those years but no longer my billing history so I dont know my peak usage. I did see something in your range at around 1720 kWh for July period.

Every year our last electric company at our last house (co_op) sends me a check for unused capital credits. Meaning money they collected and didnt need to use. I will get back around another $860 from them over the coming many years. Cool huh?
Coming from NY 16 years ago, no such thing as unused ratepayer money on Long Island. *LOL*

 

[alarmguy]

I see homes being built by the hundreds in southern Delaware by the major home home builders. Cookie cutter houses. Most use building wrap not zip board. PEX for plumbing, cheap electrical and Goodman A/C. Unsure why they are doing road construction running natural gas lines. Just go with all electric heat pumps. The houses look nice if you like cookie cutter developments. But are built cheaply. Could be better built and more energy efficient.

I can see you like older homes. Cookie Cutter homes have been built for 80 years now, most prevalent after WWII ended.
PEX is common in all homes regardless of cost, one big positive is it doesnt burst if frozen. Cheap Electrical? Makes no sense. Electrical is dictated by our building codes. Dont think your home builder is going to say lets increase our cost for electrical because its not required.

A/C units? Heck, our 2 builder installed HVAC Heil units (one for 2nd floor, one for 1st floor, approx 5.5 tons) went 16 years in the HOT midlands of South Carolina, for 16 years we NEVER opened the windows, they were still running strong when we sold the house last year. Repairs over 16 years? One condenser fan, one capacitor and one contactor in the other. That is it. I did replace the capacitor in the 2nd machine while I replaced the capacitor because that only makes sense.

Building wrap instead of zip board? So what?

Cheaply built? with todays building codes any of these so called cheaply built homes will hold up far better then one built 40+ years ago during an Atlantic Hurricane of natural disaster.

 

[alarmguy]

@UncleDave
(every time I post to you I am reminded to get one of those multi thermo sensors to put in different areas, wasnt top priority as I have a few individual ones but its time. As I am curious how hot my attic is.)

Anyway, thought I would update now that we are ground zero in summer. In the past I posted our AC stays off most of the day. The nighttime setback is 72 degrees and at 7:15 it bumps up to 77 degrees. Earlier in the year it would take until 2, 3, 4 O'clock to turn on.

Well, last nights outdoor temperature was in the 80s at 10AM this morning it was 94 degrees.
So (to repeat) our thermostat kicks up at 7:15 AM from 72 degrees to 77 degrees. Well at 11:10 AM we already hit 77 degrees in the house and the A/C unit turned on.

Ok, time to go cut the lawn *LOL*

PS we are in NC but coming from Long Island NY I still watch (at times) the weather up there. They will be hotter on some days then us... I think interesting if the Manhattan and North NJ grid holds up ok. Not that it wont, but if its to fail, this might be the week.

 

[NJMike]

I was told that some of the new systems will not go below 72*.
No one has a spouse going through menopause?
Or have a family member with lung issues?

72* is not acceptable.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Another thing that might help with summer heat is power ventilating the attic (so called "Saskatchewan air conditioning"). It gets really hot in the attic and passive ventilation can only do so much. There are gable end units and roof units. I've never had one so I can't comment on whether they make noise or vibration or whether there are reliability issues.

I understand that in India they used to (and maybe still) mist water onto the roof on hot days to cool it. A low tech way to cool your house or reduce cooling costs.

These are a bad idea because they suck conditioned air into the attic and suck warm outside air into the living space of the home. It really matters little how hot it is in the attic unless your ceiling is under insulated. Air seal and add more insulation in your ceiling!

 

[gfh77665]

Our home is about 15 years old. Cooling costs $200 -$250 from April to November. December through March about $50 per month. Heating is negligible. So $125 - $150 average for a 2500 sq ft. home in SE TX is not bad at all.

 

[Donald]

I can see you like older homes. Cookie Cutter homes have been built for 80 years now, most prevalent after WWII ended.
PEX is common in all homes regardless of cost, one big positive is it doesnt burst if frozen. Cheap Electrical? Makes no sense. Electrical is dictated by our building codes. Dont think your home builder is going to say lets increase our cost for electrical because its not required.

A/C units? Heck, our 2 builder installed HVAC Heil units (one for 2nd floor, one for 1st floor, approx 5.5 tons) went 16 years in the HOT midlands of South Carolina, for 16 years we NEVER opened the windows, they were still running strong when we sold the house last year. Repairs over 16 years? One condenser fan, one capacitor and one contactor in the other. That is it. I did replace the capacitor in the 2nd machine while I replaced the capacitor because that only makes sense.

Building wrap instead of zip board? So what?

Cheaply built? with todays building codes any of these so called cheaply built homes will hold up far better then one built 40+ years ago during an Atlantic Hurricane of natural disaster.

While allowed by code I don't want my house wired with those $0.77 outlets from HD where the wire is just pushed into the back of the outlet. Called back-wiring. The good electricians use decent outlets and use a screw on the side. Back-wiring loosens over time.

Zip board gives a tighter house than building wrap.

I know PEX is popular but the plumbers who work on custom homes prefer CPVC or copper. But freezing is not a big issue in southern DE.

The electrician I use does not do the initial electrical work for the cookie cutter houses in big developments but is often called to fix the mistakes the electricians made when doing the initial electrical work.

 

[97prizm]

I see posts and the mention of new construction homes. I would suggest a lower cost state and a builder like national production builders Lennar who formulate their construction on energy efficiency.

Now in our new home just over one year. It is a smaller home vs our last one, just my wife and I @1800 sq ft
HVAC is a heat pump. Hot Water Gas, Gas Cooktop, Electric Oven and a gas fireplace. (gas is propane)
Sidewalls have R-15, Attic oh heck I dont know, a LOT, r31 at least. Low E windows. Low flow and high efficiency fixtures and toilets.
(and the toilets work incredible somehow)

There is also an air infiltration certification done by an independent agency and the test results are posted on our electric panel. I have no idea what it means other than it must be good. Never took the time to look into it. Also because the home is air tight (I guess) the main HVAC air return duct has an intake outside air duct under the air filter within the main return duct that opens up and lets outside air in when the unit turns on which has its own 6inch x 6inch filter to filter that air.

It is STUPID cheap for energy. I literally laugh to myself typing this because I just added up one years electric bill. 12 months = $1,190. including all the other charges, Base of 29.75 a month taxes etc)
Less than $100 a month in a home where we NEVER open the windows. That is heat or air-conditioning every day of the year.
I still cant wrap my head around how cheap and the way the house is designed seems so efficient. Anyway, very happy. Though our last home was new (now 16 years old) 3000 sq ft and new when we bought it too. So taking a step down to the smaller home and newer standards is a big difference.

Example, warm weather we do turn the thermostat down at night in the summer to 72 while we sleep and for the most part 75 but up to 77 during the daytime. Well, sometimes it takes half a day or more (by dinner time) for the house to get up to that 75 to 77 before the AC clicks on. It still is early in the year and the ground cool but it gives an idea.

Winter we set the stat at 73 while awake and 65 while we sleep. We used to have it go lower but found out with this heat pump on a 24 degree day it's not as efficient trying to get from nighttime temps to daytime.

I still look for ways to get it lower but do not think that is possible.

View attachment 220073

The low flow toilets have come a long way. I just installed a new valve that has a vertical float vs the usual long rod with a float. It flushes like the tank has twice as much water.

 

[alarmguy]

The low flow toilets have come a long way. I just installed a new valve that has a vertical float vs the usual long rod with a float. It flushes like the tank has twice as much water.

Yes, we are amazed at the performance in our new home

 

[alarmguy]

While allowed by code I don't want my house wired with those $0.77 outlets from HD where the wire is just pushed into the back of the outlet. Called back-wiring. The good electricians use decent outlets and use a screw on the side. Back-wiring loosens over time.

Zip board gives a tighter house than building wrap.

I know PEX is popular but the plumbers who work on custom homes prefer CPVC or copper. But freezing is not a big issue in southern DE.

The electrician I use does not do the initial electrical work for the cookie cutter houses in big developments but is often called to fix the mistakes the electricians made when doing the initial electrical work.

You can stereotype any group or industry including independent builders that may or may not build you a nice home or steal your downpayment, the press is full of those stories.

Those "custom" builders do not build homes nor do production builders. They hire the same local electricians and plumbers and framers to do the work. They are all built to code, inspected by government agencies during construction. Newer homes are better built and safer as building standards higher than ever.
The odds of getting scammed by a national builder is far less than a local independent if anything just because of the national coverage it would create.

Who is to say your local builder uses "good electricians" and the national builder does not? Back wiring is used by some electricians, doesnt matter if it is a production builder or local builder. Personally the two production homes we had always used the screws for outlet and switches. If you dont want your house wired with 77 cent outlets then you have to make sure you change them out or the ones getting installed are what you want. Personally our new production home, now 1 year old has all made in USA outlets and switches. All of them are Eaton. Actually everything electric in the house is Eaton, including the circuit breaker panel.

Nothing wrong if you want to pay for a custom built home but dont knock other homes without knowing the factual data. You cant reference your one electrician against a nation of 350 million people. Good and bad in every industry.

I recently changed out the two bathroom fan switches for self timer switch. This is the light switch used by the production builder, made in USA Eaton.

ZIP board is exactly the name as it stands. It makes it easier and faster for builders to install with lower labor costs but higher material cost. If not done properly (just like house wrap) there is no advantage to the homeowner.

Zip board below pro and con.

So you are once again at the mercy of the worker who does his/her job correctly. Actually after reading I think I would prefer good old house wrap as zip board is standard board with the "wrap" on it and the entire structure depends on how good and what conditions the contractor taped the boards together!
Source - https://buildingadvisor.com/zip-sheathing-vs-plywood-housewrap/

My post is just people buy what they can afford and no way on planet earth if you buy a custom home are you guaranteed a proper build.

 

[Donald]

You can stereotype any group or industry including independent builders that may or may not build you a nice home or steal your downpayment, the press is full of those stories.

Those "custom" builders do not build homes nor do production builders. They hire the same local electricians and plumbers and framers to do the work. They are all built to code, inspected by government agencies during construction. Newer homes are better built and safer as building standards higher than ever.
The odds of getting scammed by a national builder is far less than a local independent if anything just because of the national coverage it would create.

Who is to say your local builder uses "good electricians" and the national builder does not? Back wiring is used by some electricians, doesnt matter if it is a production builder or local builder. Personally the two production homes we had always used the screws for outlet and switches. If you dont want your house wired with 77 cent outlets then you have to make sure you change them out or the ones getting installed are what you want. Personally our new production home, now 1 year old has all made in USA outlets and switches. All of them are Eaton. Actually everything electric in the house is Eaton, including the circuit breaker panel.

Nothing wrong if you want to pay for a custom built home but dont knock other homes without knowing the factual data. You cant reference your one electrician against a nation of 350 million people. Good and bad in every industry.

I recently changed out the two bathroom fan switches for self timer switch. This is the light switch used by the production builder, made in USA Eaton.

ZIP board is exactly the name as it stands. It makes it easier and faster for builders to install with lower labor costs but higher material cost. If not done properly (just like house wrap) there is no advantage to the homeowner.

View attachment 230586

Zip board below pro and con.
View attachment 230587

So you are once again at the mercy of the worker who does his/her job correctly. Actually after reading I think I would prefer good old house wrap as zip board is standard board with the "wrap" on it and the entire structure depends on how good and what conditions the contractor taped the boards together!
Source - https://buildingadvisor.com/zip-sheathing-vs-plywood-housewrap/

My post is just people buy what they can afford and no way on planet earth if you buy a custom home are you guaranteed a proper build.

One builder grade thing that really irks me is the builder grade rubber boot to seal the stack pipe going through the roof. The builder grade is a rubber boot that lasts 10 years, maybe half the time a decent roof lasts. The one you get from a quality builder or roofer is a silicone lifetime boot.

I don't agree with your comment about what the electricians, plumbers and roofers that the huge developers use vs smaller quality builders. I have recently hired an electrician, plumber, and roofer. None do work for the huge developers as the huge developers don't pay enough. They get enough work to stay busy without working for peanuts that the big developers pay. That's what they told me.