Cold temps, blown engine

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^I agree with you - not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?


He probably had to fess up, they can see the key cycle and the time, and if there's a bunch of codes thrown seconds after that, it's pretty obvious.

 

[Brigadier]

My wife's 13 Mazda3 has a BLUE temp gage light on the dash that comes on when cold. Manual says to drive the car gently until that light goes out.

 

[240_Ed]

This engine must have had an underlying problem - whether caused by previous neglect or manufacturing defect - to have suffered a failure in the way that was described (if the story was accurately told). If one full throttle pull in cold weather can kill an engine then no car started daily anywhere that sees cold winters would get very far on the cumulative effect of regular below-freezing running, let alone the occasional unavoidable acceleration onto a fast road or to avoid some other dangerous situation. Even 5w30 vs 10w30 oil - although it may be enough to make a negligence claim against a dealer - would be unlikely to make a really noticeable difference in just one incident, even if it could do damage over a long period of time. My money is on some underlying issue with this one, whoever's fault it may be.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^I agree with you - not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?


Normally I would say you have a good point, but I suspect it was a combination of two things; the service writer was a pretty smooth talker, and he probably just slowly asked questions like a good detective, and eventually the guy implicated himself.
The owner is not mechanically inclined , and had never owned / operated a vehicle in cold weather. Although his English is perfect, he is not a native born speaker so he could have implicated himself. If he did not know what he was doing was wrong, why would he think he made a mistake ?

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by addyguy
I'm wondering if it is a Hyundai 2.4 that already had problems, and this was the final straw.

OP didn't ever confirm make.


You are correct: I did not confirm the make.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
I'm still blown away by the chain-of-custody procedures of signing the oil pan, videos, etc. I mean, is this like Mr. Wolf in Pulp Fiction...an oil nerd fixer?

I guess you have had 100% success with all things automotive, or any repair tech, and never had somebody try to squeeze an unwitting consumer out of extra money. My experience has not been quite so clean.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by racin4ds
I'm just curious why YOU are initiating all this and having to hold this guys hand... is he not capable of making adult decisions on his own? Something is very fishy here if you ask me...

Sounds like your buddy is a moron and you're going to go down with his stupidity if you stay so overly-involved in this fiasco.

Oh lol nevermind.... I see now that said person(s) are from the great state of MD...

The guy called me and asked for a favor. He is good coworker, I like him, I have known him for many years, he has done me favors, and all it costs me is time. He is certainly NOT stupid, in fact he is pretty darn smart, but he knows his limitations.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah not everyone knows stuff about vehicles... In fact a whole whole lot of people don't.

 

[rubberchicken]

UPDATE: I spoke to the zone rep, and he agreed that the plan is sound. Owner followed all the steps I suggested, they gathered two oil samples, and I referred him to Blackstone. I will call them Monday and see what they can do about a rush UOA. No idea who the dealer is going to use, or if they even choose to do a UOA .. I think the dealer was waiting on some authorization to put some time into it to do further diagnosis. Nothing is going to happen until Monday at the earliest.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by Brigadier
My wife's 13 Mazda3 has a BLUE temp gage light on the dash that comes on when cold. Manual says to drive the car gently until that light goes out.


That is a very good feature- I wonder if any Fords implement the same thing ?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Did the dealer cut open the oil filter to inspect for metal debris? (maybe I missed it).

 

[carviewsonic]

My '66 Chev Impala had a blue light with 'COLD' lettered on the lens. I wish my current cars had that feature, for the other family members who aren't as sympathetic to a cold engine as I am.

 

[rubberchicken]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Did the dealer cut open the oil filter to inspect for metal debris? (maybe I missed it).


I do not think they have done it yet: They are supposed to call me Monday after some further diagnostics.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by rubberchicken
He is certainly NOT stupid, in fact he is pretty darn smart, but he knows his limitations.

But obviously not his vehicles.

 

[OilUzer]

let's not forget that cold temps are hard on everything and will expose other weaknesses as well ... That's why cavemen moved to warm places and believed to have used 0Wx20 dino.

 

[cronk]

Interested to see where this goes.
From a legal standpoint, I dont see grounds for warranty not covering this.
Owner has records of oil change with proper oil.
All modern cars have rev limiters that eliminates over reving as a possibility.
The tech saying the oil "seems to thick" isnt holding up in court.
Sending your own sample in for analysis is a good way to cover your butt, but it also may make the dealers case.
If the oil analysis shows the wrong oil viscosity, and he has receipts from FL showing 5w30, the place in FL that changed the oil may be buying him an engine!

 

[PWMDMD]

Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^I agree with you - not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?


Normally I would say you have a good point, but I suspect it was a combination of two things; the service writer was a pretty smooth talker, and he probably just slowly asked questions like a good detective, and eventually the guy implicated himself.
The owner is not mechanically inclined , and had never owned / operated a vehicle in cold weather. Although his English is perfect, he is not a native born speaker so he could have implicated himself. If he did not know what he was doing was wrong, why would he think he made a mistake ?

Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Originally Posted by TiGeo
^^^I agree with you - not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?


Normally I would say you have a good point, but I suspect it was a combination of two things; the service writer was a pretty smooth talker, and he probably just slowly asked questions like a good detective, and eventually the guy implicated himself.
The owner is not mechanically inclined , and had never owned / operated a vehicle in cold weather. Although his English is perfect, he is not a native born speaker so he could have implicated himself. If he did not know what he was doing was wrong, why would he think he made a mistake ?



What I don't understand is why would the service writer care? Work is work and usually all they care about is they will get reimbursed by the manufacturer. If he submitted it as manufacturer defect would the manufacture ever question it?The end result would be new customer is happy, the work is paid for by manufacture and life goes on over something that would be a questionable denial of warranty. Thick oil and too heavy on the throttle while cold...seems like grasping to me. Lots of engines have been subjected to similar conditions with no issues.

While the manufacturer maybe within their rights to deny why create bad blood over something that most likely never happens? In other words it's not like this is going to cost the manufacturer significant coin unless it's widespread - in which case it is a manufacturing defect.

 

[PeterPolyol]

2019 BITOG:
Where we collectively just accept that a modern 5W30 is now blowing up engines because it's not thin enough.....

 

[DoubleWasp]

Some employees are just huge corporate behind kissers. I once went to return a thermostat/housing assembly that was not working correctly and the parts guy was convinced we we're returning the old used part because the sticker label on it was nicked during install. The fact that this parts was clearly brand new and labeled with the part manufacturers info did not dissuade him. He became extraordinarily irate and we had to leave and go return to another store.

When we got to another store, the manager there told us he had received "calls about this" from the other store. He examined the part for about a second and processed the return after starting he didn't care what the other guy had to say.

I have no idea what makes people this way, but they are out there. I just assume they are cut from the same cloth as people who carry fake badges and try to involve themselves in everyone's business.

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted by OilUzer
what if someone (e.g. a high school kid) revs up & red lines excessively in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear and kept it past red zone and destroyed the engine?
I can see dealers covering the cold case due to publicity ... but what about abuse when the engine is warm? Does the ECU store rpm/gear history & the intervals?


Short answer to this is no, but as was mentioned at the top of page 5 of this thread (not quoting out of pure laziness) the ECU does store what is called "freeze frame data", which is a snapshot of operating conditions at the time of failure, only if a diagnostic trouble code is set. So if it set the code at the exact moment of failure, I.E. at 5,500 rpm, in second gear, with ambient temp and coolant temp matching at negative something Fahrenheit, the tech could see this information and upload a screenshot to the manufacturer. This would be abuse, and grounds for denial of warranty coverage. More PID's that are worthy to look at when determining the cause of a failure are throttle angle, load percent, vehicle speed and wheel speed. Think about it. If rear wheel speed in a Mustang is 60 or 80 mph and front wheel speed is zero, what was the owner likely doing???