Cold temps, blown engine
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Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I've never seen a UOA that tested for the W grade of an oil.
Are they going to do something special for this case?
Doesn't matter even if they decide it's an XW50 as there are 0W50s available out there...
I suppose all a UOA does is show that the oil was in an acceptable condition (i.e. not past it's change interval). The service receipts will say what oil the dealer used and when they changed it so I don't see the big deal/need for a UOA.
I've never seen a UOA that tested for the W grade of an oil.
Are they going to do something special for this case?
Doesn't matter even if they decide it's an XW50 as there are 0W50s available out there...
I suppose all a UOA does is show that the oil was in an acceptable condition (i.e. not past it's change interval). The service receipts will say what oil the dealer used and when they changed it so I don't see the big deal/need for a UOA.
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I remember my neighbor's Mustang V6 sounded like it was going to explode every time she'd get into it on a cold morning,start it up,and immediately floor it leaving her driveway. Knocking and smoking.
One neighbor had a Vega when I was a kid and she would always start it, immediately start backing out of her driveway way too fast, have it stall, restart, back up, stall....this could go on for minutes. Man, that woman drove me nuts.
She also had a dog and kid that both ran wild around the neighborhood while she sat inside with a cig watching TV...they often ran in front of cars and would nearly get hit, if the driver tracked her down she would swear that the kid/dog was inside two minutes before and they snuck out somehow without her noticing. Two minutes later, they'd be out in the street again...
I remember my neighbor's Mustang V6 sounded like it was going to explode every time she'd get into it on a cold morning,start it up,and immediately floor it leaving her driveway. Knocking and smoking.
One neighbor had a Vega when I was a kid and she would always start it, immediately start backing out of her driveway way too fast, have it stall, restart, back up, stall....this could go on for minutes. Man, that woman drove me nuts.
She also had a dog and kid that both ran wild around the neighborhood while she sat inside with a cig watching TV...they often ran in front of cars and would nearly get hit, if the driver tracked her down she would swear that the kid/dog was inside two minutes before and they snuck out somehow without her noticing. Two minutes later, they'd be out in the street again...
Originally Posted by TiGeo
.....not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?
You have to figure he was stupid enough to do it in the first place. So it only stands to reason that he would be stupid enough to admit to it as well.
.....not sure why anyone would admit to abusing their car to a dealer when seeking warranty coverage?
You have to figure he was stupid enough to do it in the first place. So it only stands to reason that he would be stupid enough to admit to it as well.
Chain of custody thing seems a bit over the top because there's no seal to be broken when it comes to pulling the sample so nobody but the technician knows whether or not the oil coming out of the pan is the same oil that was in the sump when the car arrived at the dealership. This is on the manufacturer, of course operator error is partly to blame however it's the responsibility of the manufacturer to either accept the risk for events like this or prevent them from occurring to begin with or provide an operating guide within the owners manual.
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. They repeated that test several times, then did a tear down. This was why many cars with 4BBL carbs had a secondary lock out while choke was on. With drive by wire, they could simply limit throttle opening. I guess that is too much trouble now. There is no excuse for this failure at all.
Rod
Rod
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
billt460 you're right. Even if it was 10W30, a blown engine? For years I ran my van on 10W30, at the time 5W30 wasn't popular. Millions of engines survived colder temps than that with 10W-30 in the sump. I'm still driving my van, as are many other people who used 10W30 back in the day. It might not have been the best oil for cold climates, but it worked. There's more to this story.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
billt460 you're right. Even if it was 10W30, a blown engine? For years I ran my van on 10W30, at the time 5W30 wasn't popular. Millions of engines survived colder temps than that with 10W-30 in the sump. I'm still driving my van, as are many other people who used 10W30 back in the day. It might not have been the best oil for cold climates, but it worked. There's more to this story.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. They repeated that test several times, then did a tear down. This was why many cars with 4BBL carbs had a secondary lock out while choke was on. With drive by wire, they could simply limit throttle opening. I guess that is too much trouble now. There is no excuse for this failure at all.
Rod
Hot and Cold Testing are still standard for US vehicles under development.
Back when I designed electronics for US OEMs, these testing periods drove all of our schedules and I can still hear the people we interfaced with at the customers screaming, "WE'RE GOING TO MISS HOT/COLD TESTING!!!" if the possibility of a slip was brought up. Whether the new functions actually got tested on the range was always unclear to us...
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. They repeated that test several times, then did a tear down. This was why many cars with 4BBL carbs had a secondary lock out while choke was on. With drive by wire, they could simply limit throttle opening. I guess that is too much trouble now. There is no excuse for this failure at all.
Rod
Hot and Cold Testing are still standard for US vehicles under development.
Back when I designed electronics for US OEMs, these testing periods drove all of our schedules and I can still hear the people we interfaced with at the customers screaming, "WE'RE GOING TO MISS HOT/COLD TESTING!!!" if the possibility of a slip was brought up. Whether the new functions actually got tested on the range was always unclear to us...
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
Because BITOG paranoia. 10W30 is so uncommon now, the likely oil is 5W30 which of course...is what they said they used...
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My guess is that the Florida dealer used 10w30.
Why would you guess that when the dealers records show it was 5W-30?
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
It appears he was in South Florida until recently, had the oil change at the original dealer a few times, records show it was 5w30.
Because BITOG paranoia. 10W30 is so uncommon now, the likely oil is 5W30 which of course...is what they said they used...
Originally Posted by demarpaint
billt460 you're right. Even if it was 10W30, a blown engine? For years I ran my van on 10W30, at the time 5W30 wasn't popular. Millions of engines survived colder temps than that with 10W-30 in the sump. I'm still driving my van, as are many other people who used 10W30 back in the day. It might not have been the best oil for cold climates, but it worked. There's more to this story.
It can be summed up by the owners irresponsible actions. Starting a frozen car in sub zero conditions, then by his own admission, immediately "flooring it" until the engine let go. At least that is what he is admitting to the dealer. That's insane. The only thing more insane would be the dealer agreeing to pay for the damage. The vehicle had, (according to dealer records), the proper oil in the engine. It was operated in a stupid, foolish manner, period.
billt460 you're right. Even if it was 10W30, a blown engine? For years I ran my van on 10W30, at the time 5W30 wasn't popular. Millions of engines survived colder temps than that with 10W-30 in the sump. I'm still driving my van, as are many other people who used 10W30 back in the day. It might not have been the best oil for cold climates, but it worked. There's more to this story.
It can be summed up by the owners irresponsible actions. Starting a frozen car in sub zero conditions, then by his own admission, immediately "flooring it" until the engine let go. At least that is what he is admitting to the dealer. That's insane. The only thing more insane would be the dealer agreeing to pay for the damage. The vehicle had, (according to dealer records), the proper oil in the engine. It was operated in a stupid, foolish manner, period.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. Rod
I wasn't aware that International Falls had a race track? Let alone one that was race worthy in the dead of Winter.
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. Rod
I wasn't aware that International Falls had a race track? Let alone one that was race worthy in the dead of Winter.
I'm just curious why YOU are initiating all this and having to hold this guys hand... is he not capable of making adult decisions on his own? Something is very fishy here if you ask me...
Sounds like your buddy is a moron and you're going to go down with his stupidity if you stay so overly-involved in this fiasco.
Oh lol nevermind.... I see now that said person(s) are from the great state of MD...
Sounds like your buddy is a moron and you're going to go down with his stupidity if you stay so overly-involved in this fiasco.
Oh lol nevermind.... I see now that said person(s) are from the great state of MD...
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This whole story sounds ridiculous-who would be dumb enough to admit they blew up an engine by over-revving it cold? Sounds like a stupidity tax should be in order-if this story is even true at all!
If people really paid attention to what they were cranking on they would learn the effects of hot and cold. Once you own a small plane you come to appreciate how extreme cold tightens an aluminum block engine up. At near zero the engine is very hard to roll over with the prop while 15 minutes with a tiny propane burner ducted up under there and it flops right over. It's really just that dramatically tight. There's many dissimilar metals in there competing for space. I'd try to just [censored] that thing to life and let it chug for a while if possible rather than primer it with raw gas and light it off to idle.
Those cars today are almost all aluminum blocked which gives them a lot more in Common with my old Continental than my old 327 SBC . Be gentle with those things in the cold . I quit letting them warm up long ago but when I drive off I just let it creep it's way gently along for a bit and slowly accelerate. Even using full synthetics I still do this.
One other thing to consider too is unlike oil of the past modern synthetics drain away more completely and far faster. That's not doing you any favors if you've had it sitting cold soaking a day or two then fire it up and floor it, ouch.
Those cars today are almost all aluminum blocked which gives them a lot more in Common with my old Continental than my old 327 SBC . Be gentle with those things in the cold . I quit letting them warm up long ago but when I drive off I just let it creep it's way gently along for a bit and slowly accelerate. Even using full synthetics I still do this.
One other thing to consider too is unlike oil of the past modern synthetics drain away more completely and far faster. That's not doing you any favors if you've had it sitting cold soaking a day or two then fire it up and floor it, ouch.
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. Rod
I wasn't aware that International Falls had a race track? Let alone one that was race worthy in the dead of Winter.
I don't think International Falls does, but Baudette does.
Baudette's test center certainly does have a "track", but it is most certainly not a race track. On google maps, look about 3 miles SW of Baudette, MN at the intersections of CR 5 and CR 1.
Most cold weather regular driving testing is done on regular roads.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I now that many years ago with some domestic USA OEM part of the testing was to go up to international falls, cold soak the car, start it , let it run a few seconds and then floor it onto the track and lap until fully warm, then back into the garage to cold soak. Rod
I wasn't aware that International Falls had a race track? Let alone one that was race worthy in the dead of Winter.
I don't think International Falls does, but Baudette does.
Baudette's test center certainly does have a "track", but it is most certainly not a race track. On google maps, look about 3 miles SW of Baudette, MN at the intersections of CR 5 and CR 1.
Most cold weather regular driving testing is done on regular roads.
It's not very likely the owner actually admitted to.........."jumped in the car and as soon as it was started he floored it as he was late for work." More than likely that has been spun several times already in Interpretation. The term "flooring it" means different things to all of us. While I've "hammered" my cars at times....and never over red line, the pedal was never, ever pushed to the floor/firewall. And unless you're driving a vintage vehicle of sorts, you can't even "floor" the pedal. Maybe you can "firewall" it though.
So what, the guy got in the car and accelerated away in cold weather? New cars are tested to be able to handle such things....at least a few times. If they can't, it's not a very worthy engine. While good engineering practices dictate you drive away "slowly" allowing for a proper warmup, it's not always possible. What about emergency or police vehicles that have sat for hours in frigid weather? Those have to respond at a moment's notice to full rpms. I can see a police officer responding to a shooting/bank robbery and letting his cold engine "slowly warm up" at 2000 rpm.
So what, the guy got in the car and accelerated away in cold weather? New cars are tested to be able to handle such things....at least a few times. If they can't, it's not a very worthy engine. While good engineering practices dictate you drive away "slowly" allowing for a proper warmup, it's not always possible. What about emergency or police vehicles that have sat for hours in frigid weather? Those have to respond at a moment's notice to full rpms. I can see a police officer responding to a shooting/bank robbery and letting his cold engine "slowly warm up" at 2000 rpm.
Engines are not expected to fail if run to the red-line on startup IF the correct oil was used. The manufacture should cover this unless there is written instruction NOT to do this. Ed
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