Change the oil filter every other oil change?

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Apparently Honda has been recommending this for a while,the owners manual for my 97 Accord recommends oil changes at 7.5k miles (normal maint) and oil filter changes every 15k. But under severe maint schedule it recommends oil and filter every 3,750 miles.
Using 5W30 API SH rated oil back then.
 
The small amount of oil left in the filter between changes is negligible in practice.. In my case it results in about 5.4qts being installed instead of 6. So about 10% is used oil. I hesitate to call it dirty or old as it is neither, just the additives in the oil have been consumed and need to be replenished. If anybody has followed long OCI UOAs, you will have seen the effect that even a quart of make up oil can have on TBN, often raising it several points higher than you would think for the volume added.
Optimally I wouldve liked to have done UOAs on every oil change I had done, but it recent times it has been hard to do anything during normal person (daylight) hours including shipping things out so it was just too much hassle. I still have the last two UOA bottles I filled from other vehicles sitting in the garage somewhere. One is over a year old and the other is probably 2 years at this point.
Anyway, my reasoning is if its not plugged then it is still filtering and if its still filtering then why change it. Its more mess than is necessary. Modern vehicles don't make that much trash anyways. IIRC, most of the stuff a oil filter picks up is stuff that the air filter missed, and, I have that end covered with a Amsoil EAA and a restriction gauge to monitor filter plugging.
Honestly, I kinda had to roll my eyes when I saw this thread. We have one of these, what, twice a month? Usually with the same title, too, just different authors. They always end up the same way with the same people on both sides posting their opinions and no one ever changes their mind so its kinda like watching a rerun of an old movie. I haven't been in on one for probably a year, so, I thought I would watch this rerun.
:p
 
It's not about being cheap. It's about the filter being utilized for what it's capable of. Most of you will never push a regular filter into bypass because it exceeded contamination capacity, let alone at dual layer Fram Ultra.

The facts are that uoas backed up with cut open filter reveal most filters are drastically underutilized and I believe it's better to get the higher efficiency of a pre loaded filter than to change the filter before it reachs it's potential. Mostly I'm talking about Fram Ultras, which I feel comfortable pushing to and beyond rated capacity. Cellulose filters are more fragile and I might change them every oci.

There's nothing stupid about using a filter rated for 15,000 miles for 15,000 miles and insulting the intelligence of those who are actually smart enough to do such a thing reveals more about the Intelligence of the poster than anything.
 
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I thought the logic behind NOT changing the filter was that the engine would not be subject to the couple of seconds of dry run.

Its the first few seconds of starting a car when the most wear takes place. I imagine its MUCH HARDER on the car the 3-4 seconds its takes to get a bone dry filter filled.

I could be wrong...


In my experience with emergency power generators the most wear is experienced between start up and full operating temperature of the coolant, oil and engine block/head(s), not the few seconds during start up. If your engine turns over on the starter than you're not experiencing a "bone dry" start up. If the engine was "dry" the starter would never be able to turn the crankshaft. After you start your engine you should consider getting your car moving and get the warm up going. This does not mean pushing it but just moving down the road giving everything time to come up to operating temperature. Cold weather changes things because sometimes you don't want to attempt moving until the heater starts working. So you put up with the wear and tear and life goes on but in temperate conditions letting a car idle to warm it up causes unnecessary wear on the engine.

The question I was posing about skipping every other filter change was aimed at the question, doe the filter actually get better at its job as it ages and does this practice actually help rather than hurt the life of the engine. I guess that without some testing there's no answer.
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
OEM filter on the Subie is changed every interval


Fram Ultra on the Civic is changed every other interval, so 2X 6-8k miles = 12-16k miles. Based on the wholly unscientific data produced from cutting a few filters open I could probably tack on another interval and be fine.


totally agree with you there.

my brothers 06 civic had MM OCI with honda oil for the first 20k then walmart lube express for the last 145k, since then I have been doing 2xMM OCI with 0w20 Full Syntheic & 4xMM FCI with Fram Ultra. It burns like all R18s about 1/2 quart during a full MM run.

on Walmart's cheapest lube express oil look at the engine...
257df74.jpg

29e3zgp.jpg

9baxya.jpg

2ngakw4.jpg
 
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I change my oil and filter at each gas fillup - can't be too cheap, now, right!? I also change my boxers after everytime too (or is that 'two'?), you know, can't be too cheap!
I make sure to replace my tires when they are 50% done, too - can't be too cheap. Shocks/struts - every 12 months - can't compromise on safety/handling due to cheapness, right?

I never save and eat leftovers, why would I be cheap?

laugh.gif


...


Reductio ad absurdum? Most definitely not the best way to win this argument. Try again...
smirk.gif


I think it is safe to say that the oil used in most modern vehicles has a lifespan far greater than that of any oil filters used today. As a matter of fact, there are people out there (not me) that run extended OCIs and ONLY change the filter. Im not condoning this method, but I believe it does have some merit.

Without speaking in too (yes another proper use of the word) many generalties, the moral of the story is that there is no reason to change to oil and leave the filter. If your oil life is null, there is a very good chance your filter life is null. Unless you just happen to run dino oil through something like an extended OCI synthetic filter, in which case the question is now again "why?"...
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
It's not about being cheap. It's about the filter being utilized for what it's capable of. Most of you will never push a regular filter into bypass because it exceeded contamination capacity, let alone at dual layer Fram Ultra.

The facts are that uoas backed up with cut open filter reveal most filters are drastically underutilized and I believe it's better to get the higher efficiency of a pre loaded filter than to change the filter before it reachs it's potential. Mostly I'm talking about Fram Ultras, which I feel comfortable pushing to and beyond rated capacity. Cellulose filters are more fragile and I might change them every oci.

There's nothing stupid about using a filter rated for 15,000 miles for 15,000 miles and insulting the intelligence of those who are actually smart enough to do such a thing reveals more about the Intelligence of the poster than anything.


I totally agree. I'm thinking of using the Fram Ultra because it's construction looks great so I'm trusting it more than other filters that I'm seeing cut open, synthetic media does not degrade and it has 99% efficiency. With a 15k mile rating, it would be silly to not use it's potential, especially as my engine is clean. I suspect it could go 20k miles or more.

So not only can you get a great performing filter, if you use it for 15k miles or more, it becomes cost effective and utilized. I certainly have more than enough money to toss it every time but for me it's important not to waste and the main question is whether to remove it, let the old oil out and replace it, or not touch it at all.

Oh, and in my case, full synthetic oil will be depleted before the rated life of the filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
I certainly have more than enough money to toss it(oil filter) every time but for me it's important not to waste.

Oh, and in my case, full synthetic oil will be depleted before the rated life of the filter.


+1 that's exactly how I feel, I hate wasting money & resources and if they new fully synthetic oil filters are more then capable...then why not?
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Anyone following this kind of pattern? Say, oil every 5k miles and filter every 10k miles?


I heard the quick lube places do a variant on this:

3k miles for oil, filter optional.


I sure hope you mean "filter change optional". None of my vehicles would run long without an oil filter.
frown.gif
 
Have no idea about my Jeep, I get free oil & filter changes for the first 50k miles. My '08 Ford says to change the oil and filter every 3k miles.

I am getting a adapter made so I can run a larger filter(one with over 600 sq. in. of filter media) for the Ford that also filters down to a lower micron than the stock FL820-S. I plan to get UOA's done at 3k, 4.5k and 6k miles to see how far I can go with the oil.

ROD
 
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
OEM filter on the Subie is changed every interval


Fram Ultra on the Civic is changed every other interval, so 2X 6-8k miles = 12-16k miles. Based on the wholly unscientific data produced from cutting a few filters open I could probably tack on another interval and be fine.


totally agree with you there.

my brothers 06 civic had MM OCI with honda oil for the first 20k then walmart lube express for the last 145k, since then I have been doing 2xMM OCI with 0w20 Full Syntheic & 4xMM FCI with Fram Ultra. It burns like all R18s about 1/2 quart during a full MM run.

on Walmart's cheapest lube express oil look at the engine...
257df74.jpg

29e3zgp.jpg

9baxya.jpg

2ngakw4.jpg



Nice. Looks almost identical to the cleanliness of the valvetrain of my Acura when I've pulled the valve cover before. At around 120k (serviced every 5k/6mos. with bulk dino by the previous owner since new) it looked almost the same. And that was with lesser oils starting in 1994.
 
Originally Posted By: EdwardC
There's got to be more to it than that. My Honda's manual says it is acceptable, so I believe them.

There's also something to be said about not being wasteful. You could make the same argument that it would be stupid not to change your oil every 1,000 miles, just because you know it's better than doing it every 2,000 miles.

Changing the filter or oil sooner than needed is wasteful. I trust the owners manual to make a reasonable and likely conservative choice to change the filter every other OCI.

+1.....excellent logic... as well as common sense.

The Ultra is a winner in my book, and a 'best bang for the buck".
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
It's not about being cheap. It's about the filter being utilized for what it's capable of. Most of you will never push a regular filter into bypass because it exceeded contamination capacity, let alone at dual layer Fram Ultra.

The facts are that uoas backed up with cut open filter reveal most filters are drastically underutilized and I believe it's better to get the higher efficiency of a pre loaded filter than to change the filter before it reachs it's potential. Mostly I'm talking about Fram Ultras, which I feel comfortable pushing to and beyond rated capacity. Cellulose filters are more fragile and I might change them every oci.

There's nothing stupid about using a filter rated for 15,000 miles for 15,000 miles and insulting the intelligence of those who are actually smart enough to do such a thing reveals more about the Intelligence of the poster than anything.

+1....Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
I certainly have more than enough money to toss it(oil filter) every time but for me it's important not to waste.

Oh, and in my case, full synthetic oil will be depleted before the rated life of the filter.


+1 that's exactly how I feel, I hate wasting money & resources and if they new fully synthetic oil filters are more then capable...then why not?

+2
 
Thats why I use a Fram TG and just use it for a shorter interval! I wont spend more money to run an Ultra because I wont want to keep the filter on longer and keep dirty oil in there and waste the abilities of the filter. To each their own, no criticism directed at either, as I am sure that we will have people who can prove no significant difference of engine cleanliness/durability by reusing a filter.
 
I'm glad I read through the entire thread. I posted early and only saw anti-extended OFI members posting. Good to see more "cheap" members posting up. I was beginning to worry about the future of this site, that only anti-progressive types remained, following decades old practices and spouting off nonsens on what I thought to be a progressive, cutting-edge forum.
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Confuscious say: Wise man change oil and filter at same time.


Confuscious say: People say Confuscious say a lot of things Confuscious never say.

wink.gif
 
To all of the people who can't sleep at night knowing there is leftover oil in their engines after drain: Some of the best cars in the world have oil coolers that keep a quart or more behind after draining the oil pan, and none of them are known for throwing rods/bearings/pistons rings/etc/etc due to the oil being left over. Also, in the removal of many oil pans, I have found that many have drain plug placements that do not allow for a complete drain of all of the engine oil.

Like the Honda R18 pictured above, I have taken apart many engines that had the filter changed every other OCI, and found nothing except wear surfaces that exhibited very little evidence they had ever been run in a 7000-9000 rpm engine, and cylinder walls that literally showed a reflection, after more than 130k miles on the road. Honda R18's in particular. And the R18's filter is about the size of a teacup in a toddler's tea set. It's a 1/6 scale model of a real oil filter.

Beyond that, I maintain a fleet of gasoline Isuzu NPR's (Vortec 5.7's) that have received the same treatment over the 200-240k they have been on the road. Even with the full quart left over in their oversized filter, and the oil left over in their oil coolers, they're all still rocking and rolling, and running very well, despite lugging around a 9000 lb. truck and additional payload everyday.

As a matter of fact, I have never worked on a high mileage vehicle serviced under this method that had encountered a problem or failure due to lubrication issues. Don't know what everyone is trying to run or hide from.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
TomYoung said:
OneEyeJack said:
Anyone following this kind of pattern? Say, oil every 5k miles and filter every 10k miles?


Yup - my daughters 2000 Galant manual 2.4L recommends "normal" OCIs at 7.5k and the FCI at 2x that (15k miles), all on normal oils and filters.


And that's with the OEM oil filter that probably isn't even a true "extended change interval" filter like some of the aftermarket filters are built to do.
 
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