Castrol Edge 0W30 has BMW LL01 again!

[edyvw]

Yeah right.

Yeah right.

 

[svenson]

Different. I thought it would be the same but I didn’t realize the Castrol agreement covers North America only. Shell was the NA supplier from 2015 through early 2021 and it is possible the older formulations from this period were the same. Anything in a Castrol shaped bottle in NA is a NA specific formulation most likely.

However… all these oils need to meet spec BMW’s specs. If you’re not tracking the car or it’s not for an engine with known issues I wouldn’t think too hard.

i read somewhere that TPT bmw is different formulated especially for bmw and not like the same's brand on the shelf.
i already said that my DI engine has a lot of issues , not an oil related but who knows.
anyway its not thinking too hard , its a discussion.

 

[chris719]

i read somewhere that TPT bmw is different formulated especially for bmw and not like the same's brand on the shelf.
i already said that my DI engine has a lot of issues , not an oil related but who knows.
anyway its not thinking too hard , its a discussion.

It seems to be different, but there is no evidence they are asking for anything better than their LL-xx specs dictate.

 

[edyvw]

It seems to be different, but there is no evidence they are asking for anything better than their LL-xx specs dictate.

BMW LL01 has Noack at max 13%. There is no LL01 at that %.
PQIA had TPT 5W30 at 6.8%.

 

[chris719]

BMW LL01 has Noack at max 13%. There is no LL01 at that %.
PQIA had TPT 5W30 at 6.8%.

Nothing special is what I mean. I doubt TPT has lower noack than any other quality LL01 at special request. I doubt the Castrol TPT has lower than Edge now, for example. Noack is low on all Shell GTL based oils.

 

[svenson]

6.2% i found the page on PQIA, which is very interesting. is there a similar organisation-institute like PQIA in Europe?

 

[edyvw]

6.2% i found the page on PQIA, which is very interesting. is there a similar organisation-institute like PQIA in Europe?

yep. 6.2%. I made mistake.
There was that Russian web site oil.ru. Not sure is it accessible anymore.

 

[svenson]

ok, in this video this guy shows on screen that HTHS for 30 grades is 2.9 ? shouldn't be min 3.5?

 

[edyvw]

ok, in this video this guy shows on screen that HTHS for 30 grades is 2.9 ? shouldn't be min 3.5?

View attachment 153952

That is the minimum HTHS. ILSAC oils have HTHS, usually around 3. BMW TPT 0W30 FE has HTHS around that value.
HTHS 3.5 is a Euro thing in ACEA C3 and C3 specifications.
Lower HTHS, better mpg, hence: LL01FE=Fuel Efficiency.

 

[kschachn]

That is the minimum HTHS. ILSAC oils have HTHS, usually around 3. BMW TPT 0W30 FE has HTHS around that value.
HTHS 3.5 is a Euro thing in ACEA C3 and C3 specifications.
Lower HTHS, better mpg, hence: LL01FE=Fuel Efficiency.

Goes to show the limitations of a grade designation.

 

[edyvw]

Goes to show the limitations of a grade designation.

Yes.

 

[Thumper3]

You might feel it when turbo spools. You will feel bit of drag compared to lower HTHS.

Yeah right.

I'll give it a test, should be getting my 2023 A4 Allroad next weekend, comes filled from the factory with 0-20 which is 2.5, 2.6 HTHS? It will stay in the crankcase only as long as it takes me to drive the 70 miles home from the dealer and then will be getting HPL No-VII 5w-30 which is 3.566 HTHS. We'll see if I feel a change.

After break in I'll likely take it up to the 5w40 since it will be getting tuned and everyday is a trackday.

 

[edyvw]

I'll give it a test, should be getting my 2023 A4 Allroad next weekend, comes filled from the factory with 0-20 which is 2.5, 2.6 HTHS? It will stay in the crankcase only as long as it takes me to drive the 70 miles home from the dealer and then will be getting HPL No-VII 5w-30 which is 3.566 HTHS. We'll see if I feel a change.

After break in I'll likely take it up to the 5w40 since it will be getting tuned and everyday is a trackday.

What test, man? This is a known fact since the existence of ICE and needs to be lubricated.
I mean, to even discuss this. There is a reason why your Audi comes with 0W20. Less resistance=better mpg.

 

[Thumper3]

What test, man? This is a known fact since the existence of ICE and needs to be lubricated.
I mean, to even discuss this. There is a reason why your Audi comes with 0W20. Less resistance=better mpg.

A test to see if a person could seriously "feel" a difference in turbo spool from a low HTHS oil to a normal one.

It was a joke, because that's ridiculous. It's a known fact since the first ICE that a turbo will spool slower in slightly thicker oil? The first engine was turbo? Lol

Yes, lower HTHS yields better mileage....... and more wear unless you drive like a turtle.

 

[edyvw]

A test to see if a person could seriously "feel" a difference in turbo spool from a low HTHS oil to a normal one.

It was a joke, because that's ridiculous. It's a known fact since the first ICE that a turbo will spool slower in slightly thicker oil? The first engine was turbo? Lol

Yes, lower HTHS yields better mileage....... and more wear unless you drive like a turtle.

Of course, there is a consequence and you can actually feel a bit of drag if you increase HTHS a bit.
Actually, the oil that I could really feel was Pentosin High-Performance II 5W40. That oil had obvious spool hesitance compared to Edge 0W30 I used in VW CC. Going from 0W20 to anything HTHS 3.5 or higher should be felt.

 

[buster]

Still made in Belgium! My E39 used a lot of that stuff.

While the old German Castrol 0w30 put up good wear numbers, it likely lacked the ability to keep the engine very clean. Doug Hillary had mentioned before Castrol had deposit and varnish issues with some of their formulations from years ago.

Castrol is a mixed bag. Lot of marketing garbage.

 

[drtyler]

While the old German Castrol 0w30 put up good wear numbers, it likely lacked the ability to keep the engine very clean. Doug Hillary had mentioned before Castrol had deposit and varnish issues with some of their formulations from years ago.

Castrol is a mixed bag. Lot of marketing garbage.

But “intelligent molecules”

 

[buster]

"Think with your dipstick Jimmy!"

 

[Thumper3]

Of course, there is a consequence and you can actually feel a bit of drag if you increase HTHS a bit.
Actually, the oil that I could really feel was Pentosin High-Performance II 5W40. That oil had obvious spool hesitance compared to Edge 0W30 I used in VW CC. Going from 0W20 to anything HTHS 3.5 or higher should be felt.

I guess maybe if you're Niki Lauda and you can feel a new wheel bearing on the right rear starting to wear. Again, there is no question of IF there is a consequence, I simply doubt the average person doing normal driving would ever notice any such thing where such a statement is necessary. I respect your input and your opinion, I just currently disagree.

But hey, in all fairness I have never changed the HTHS of my oil in any appreciable measure as I have never had a need. 5w40 was always factory spec and the proper level of protection for my vehicles and driving style/type. Now we have ridiculous specs to meet arbitrary government requirements so I will have a chance to test the statement, which is all I said.

Average mileage of 12,000/yr at 30mpg is 400 gallons of fuel, change that to 28mpg and it's 429 gallons. So at the national average of $3.57 it's the difference between $1,531.53 and $1,428.00, or $103.53 a year savings in fuel costs. I'll take the better protection and longevity for that miniscule difference. Unless I feel like I'm loosing more than 10HP I can just slap a sticker on the back glass and call it even.

 

[chris719]

While the old German Castrol 0w30 put up good wear numbers, it likely lacked the ability to keep the engine very clean. Doug Hillary had mentioned before Castrol had deposit and varnish issues with some of their formulations from years ago.

Castrol is a mixed bag. Lot of marketing garbage.

I thought original GC had some amount of Ketjenlube ester?

I will say that most BMW engines I’ve seen torn down from the Castrol era are pretty clean as long as OCI is followed. Especially the engines running 10W-60 TWS. Rod bearings spin way before varnish is an issue .