CAFE has Little to do with Motor Oil Viscosity Use

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
Little is not nothing. Ford did it for CAFE. What has occurred since then you are correct, but Fords original reason was CAFE.

Concerning thinning again you are correct, but I believe CAFE does not involve "thinned" out oil. The government went to great lengths to make sure that 5W-20 oils were readily available and at a reasonable price.


Well, its great to finally hear from one of the experts at Ford that made the decision for that reason. Until now it has just been conjecture as to whether or not that was the reason. I'm also amazed that even with the government stepping in it took so long for the major manufacturers to adopt 5w 20. Thank you for bringing that to light.
And what exactly did the government DO in the free market to make this oil available?

 

[johnachak]

NO, his reasoning makes perfect sense. Riddle me this. Why does the regular GT get speced for 5w 20w when the exact same car with the track pack specifies 5w 50w oil? The internals are exactly the same with only suspension, rear end, and tire changes ect.. The track pack has zero to do with the engine.

This is an admission by Ford that they know that a thicker weight oil is better under abuse. [/quote]

I'm old school and rear end gearing and tire size had a LOT to do with engine rpm at speed. I didn't realize physics were now out of the picture.
It sounds to mee that Ford should admit when a car does not have a track package and was not designed for track use that" If the user intends to abuse this vehicle and use it for unintended purposes, use thicker oil. Hmmmm, Isn't that what Ford racing division does if you say you want to track your vehicle? How can one compare a people mover to a track car as far as oil recommendations go?

 

[aquariuscsm]

If I ever buy a V8 Mustang,it`s getting either Syntec 5W50 or M1 15W50.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: Rocko1

The cheapest easiest way to increase fuel mileage was to thin down the oil. Less resistence= increased fuel mileage.
I then asked "what will this do to an engine in later life?"
The replay was "we dyno tested the engines and they went 100K + "
I said "dyno testing at a controlled engine speed is not real world, what about the guy that doesnt change his oil like he should, major climate swings like we have in Indiana ect."
The reply was " the engine is warrantied for 3/36 after that its the consumers problem"
And thats the truth. [/i]


What year was that?Ford engines are well known to go welk over 200,000 miles in taxi service using 5w 20.

 

[johnachak]

[/quote]
You do realize, I hope that 5w 20 oil is not recommended for Ford track cars. That is a totally different animal. In fact most "tracked at WOT cars are rebuilt regularly since no motor oil can stand up to that abuse. 5w 20 is spec'ed for those of us that drive on city streets or highways with speed limits. [/quote]

Why buy a high performance sports/muscle car and drive it like a Prius? [/quote]

A stock Mustang GT is not a track car. leaving rubber once in a while or. dusting a ricer, is not the kind of track abuse being referred to.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: johnachak
I always noticed a HUGE difference in the cranking speed of 5w30 oils VS the 20w 50 I used when the bearings were going. Its good to know it was all in my imaginatio..


With the cars listed in your profile,I can understand why your motors were stuggling to turn over with a non-CAFE oil. Better stick with a 0W2/0W5/0W10/0W20 so you won`t be late to work every morning :^)


Thats funny... I was talking about my 1976 vehicle. Don't try to race your friend... That 96 still runs huh? Cool. I'm happy for you.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm

I always noticed a HUGE difference in the cranking speed of 5w30 oils VS the 20w 50 I used when the bearings were going. Its good to know it was all in my imaginatio..


With the cars listed in your profile,I can understand why your motors were stuggling to turn over with a non-CAFE oil. Better stick with a 0W2/0W5/0W10/0W20 so you won`t be late to work every morning :^)


Thats funny... I was talking about my 1976 vehicle. Don't try to race your friend... At least with that thing in your profile.


Ford Freestyle? Are you male or are you a soccermom?

 

[johnachak]

I certainly am Male. thats what I use to transport my dog and my fishing gear to my boat. Hey, at least its American as are all my vehicles. Good night.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Umm,"Genuine"Ford/Motorcraft parts are made in Japan,UK,Singapore,China,etc. I can send box pics if you want proof. Have a good evening :^)

 

[Joenpb]

Quote:
A stock Mustang GT is not a track car. leaving rubber once in a while or. dusting a ricer, is not the kind of track abuse being referred to.


The car does come with a 7K rpm red line, and a speed limiter of 155 mph. While they aren't necessarily "intended" for the track, they aren't usually driven like a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry either. The new Ford motors put out more power, and seem to get hotter than the average car.

 

[johnachak]

I sincerely doubt he is running it WOT at a track for 18 years and hundreds of thousands of miles. Just taking a car to a track and driving it around a few times at more than legal speeds but, way less than full (Or wide open) throttle is not what I meant, you are correct in that.

 

[johnachak]

[/quote]
The car does come with a 7K rpm red line, and a speed limiter of 155 mph. While they aren't necessarily "intended" for the track, they aren't usually driven like a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry either. The new Ford motors put out more power, and seem to get hotter than the average car. [/quote]

My Caddy CTS has a 7,000 rpm redline (that I have hit more than once for sure) and is governed for 155 also. I'm not getting your point. The comparison was for 5w 50 in track ready cars vs 5w 20 in street cars. it is like comparing apples to oranges is my point.

 

[Brigadier]

Still no answer from AEHaas about why the M5 is spec'ed for 10W60......

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Still no answer from AEHaas about why the M5 is spec'ed for 10W60......


Probably so you'll have to buy it from a BMW dealer at a huge price... I could be wrong... I'm not a real Beamer lover.

 

[johnachak]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I keep seeing alot of 90`s era 4.6 V8 Mustangs and Crown Vic/Marquis that smoke (blue smoke),as well as my friend`s old 96 GT he had years ago. Why is this? Engine wear from being constantly raced with a thin oil,allowing for the oil to escape into the cumbustion process getting burned? Just a hunch.


Maybe because they are from 12-20+ Years old with hundreds of thousands of miles? Just a possibility. Keep in mind the fact that there are still so many of them still running around.

 

[edhackett]

Quote:
And what exactly did the government DO in the free market to make this oil available?


Nothing. When Ford petitioned the EPA to be able to use 5W-20 for CAFE the EPA stipulated a number of conditions Ford had to meet. One of those was that the oil would be readily available. Ford had to work with the oil companies to insure availability.

I wish I could find an active link to the original correspondence between Ford and the EPA. After 11 years, all the links that I can find are dead. Those letters should really be a sticky here with members being required to read them and pass a quiz before being able to post.

Ed

 

[Brigadier]

Really? That's all you got? 12-20 years old? Couple hundred k miles?

Well, I sold my 85 Z28 in 2007 with 280k miles on it. It drove away without smoking. Mobil 15W50 thruout it's life.

1990 Astro was sold two weeks ago - 256k miles, 10W40. No smoking.

BTW, I see ALOT of Acuras that age smoking, too.


Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I keep seeing alot of 90`s era 4.6 V8 Mustangs and Crown Vic/Marquis that smoke (blue smoke),as well as my friend`s old 96 GT he had years ago. Why is this? Engine wear from being constantly raced with a thin oil,allowing for the oil to escape into the cumbustion process getting burned? Just a hunch.


Maybe because they are from 12-20+ Years old with hundreds of thousands of miles? Just a possibility. Keep in mind the fact that there are still so many of them still running around.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Still no answer from AEHaas about why the M5 is spec'ed for 10W60......


Probably so you'll have to buy it from a BMW dealer at a huge price... I could be wrong... I'm not a real Beamer lover.

 

[bluesubie]

Can you kids keep this about fuel economy please? I don't think this thread is about "OMG, my next door neighbor's cousin uses 50 weight in his 1982 Buick".

I've seen several quotes and links that specifically state that thinner oils are for fuel economy (e.g. from Ford). My manual says that 5W-30 is preferred for fuel economy and that thicker viscosities are required in high ambient temps. I'm waiting for some evidence, and not merely opinion, to show that switch to thinner oils is not for CAFE.

Thank you.

-Dennis

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
My manual says that 5W-30 is preferred for fuel economy and that thicker viscosities are required in high ambient temps. I'm waiting for some evidence, and not merely opinion, to show that switch to thinner oils is not for CAFE.

Thank you.

-Dennis


That`s sort`ve what my manual and fsm both say. "Do not use 5W20 under any circumstance,5W30 if car is never driven outside of freezing temps (do not use 5W30 on turbo model),10W30 is preferred for fuel economy only,10W40-20W50 if car is to be raced or driven for extended high speeds,or driven in hot climates). Says 20W50 can be used down to 14F.