CAFE has Little to do with Motor Oil Viscosity Use

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Agreed. Marketing statements are not engineering gospel.


Fine, so what is the gospel? Aehaas' feelings about oil?

 

[Brigadier]

It appears to be so, doesn't it?

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Fine, so what is the gospel? Aehaas' feelings about oil?

 

[boxcartommie22]

let me be the devils addvocate,how do we know when for example ford knowingly says use 5w20 to purposely make your engine last only so long say 130,000 miles? then it falls apart..makes you buy a new car? use cheap parts etc. or am i worring too much? thats why i use a low 5w30 in my fords...i asked ford svt about my raptor.they told me i can use a 5w 30 when i push it in off road..they said 5w30 will not hurt anything at all!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Anyone who does not believe that planned obsolescence is a part of the car maker's thought processes is just kidding themselves.

There is always a lifespan consideration. For example, Lexus lowered the redline on the IS-F V-8 strictly because they needed to reach their target for long term durability.

But I feel certain if 20w is being recommended in writing there was testing done to prove that it did not compromise longevity.

 

[tig1]

Is 20 wt OK in my Fords?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Is 20 wt OK in my Fords?

Sure. Although most of the time it's running as a 30wt.



This thread has gone all over the place. Was CAFE a reason to run 20's - initially, sure. But look at what the desire for better economy has produced - stout 20 wts that can take a beating and better engineered vehicles to run it in. IMO, that desire pushes the envelope on both ends.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Anyone who does not believe that planned obsolescence is a part of the car maker's thought processes is just kidding themselves.

There is always a lifespan consideration. For example, Lexus lowered the redline on the IS-F V-8 strictly because they needed to reach their target for long term durability.

But I feel certain if 20w is being recommended in writing there was testing done to prove that it did not compromise longevity.


+10

 

[surfstar]

Guys, come on now -- if you want your engine to last you must use 20w50. Look how all those engines from the 90's grenade'd themselves on 5w30 that quickly sheared to 20 wt. Hasn't history taught us anything?

 

[AEHaas]

"Still no answer from AEHaas about why the M5 is spec'ed for 10W60......"

I do not know.

aehaas

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Fine, so what is the gospel? Aehaas' feelings about oil?

I don't like gospels myself, honestly. I prefer information that is subject to revision as new facts come in. Maybe that's just me.

AEHaas gives us several pieces of a large puzzle. There is more to it. Check it out and put the pieces together for yourself, and then come back and share with us. I'm sure we could make an interesting conversation about it.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Still no answer from AEHaas about why the M5 is spec'ed for 10W60......

It doesn't just spec 10w-60. It specs Castrol TWS, which happens to be a 10w-60. There is a difference.

And to be clear, of the many generations of M5 that have existed, the only one that specs TWS is the E60.

As for why it specs an oil that thick: probably because it's a high-revving engine that can see very high oil temps under race use on hot days, and they wanted to be sure oil pressure could be maintained at all times.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Guys, come on now -- if you want your engine to last you must use 20w50. Look how all those engines from the 90's grenade'd themselves on 5w30 that quickly sheared to 20 wt. Hasn't history taught us anything?


Yup,according to some on this forum,I laugh everytime I see it being posted.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
And to be clear, of the many generations of M5 that have existed, the only one that specs TWS is the E60.


Many M models inc E39 98-2000 take Edge10w60, some US are exceptions but you didn't say that. TWS and RS have been replaced by Edge.
Quote:
Castrol RS SAE 10W-60 also called Castrol TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Oil Part No. 07 51 0 009 420

Look for yourself

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9033468&contentId=7061486

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Guys, come on now -- if you want your engine to last you must use 20w50. Look how all those engines from the 90's grenade'd themselves on 5w30 that quickly sheared to 20 wt. Hasn't history taught us anything?


Whatcha talkin' about? I just started using 5W-30 when I bought the '07 Grand Marquis... The '93 I had prior had a steady diet of 10W-30/40 and at 190K mi plus, like the Energizer bunny, is going & going... Other than the valve stem seals that are a common failure for the pre '96 4.6, it's never had any engine repairs... A friend still uses it every day...

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Many M models inc E39 98-2000 take Edge10w60, some US are exceptions but you didn't say that.

The post to which I was responding specified the M5, not M cars in general.

Good catch on the early E39s, though. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Smokescreen]

This is a funny thread. The OP throws a morsel out and everyone just goes at it like a pack of dogs on a single steak...it loses momentum so the OP riles everyone up again to amount to 12 pages of no conclusive reasons why manufacturers do what they do. No real reason why same car same engine would be spec'd 20wt in North America, yet 20, 30, 40 wt for the rest of the world. There is no puzzle pieces and the OP definitely doesn't know the answer as to why manufacturers do what they do.

Oil maintenance, trumps weight every time for longevity. Unless you go from one extreme heavy oil weight to the other extreme light weight you will see little to no difference in fuel economy or power. 30wt 20wt...no matter, its all good.

Magic thread food = CAFE, thin oil, thick oil, Ford vs Chevy.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Fine, so what is the gospel? Aehaas' feelings about oil?


No.

I think that a statement that Xw-50 is designed for protection and Xw-20 or Xw-30 is designed for fuel economy is over-simplification. A straight 50 or a 15w-50 isn't going to do a lot of protection here when it's -40. And a 0w-20 isn't going to turn a 3/4 ton with a 454 into a Chevy sprint, either.

 

[Zako2]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
No real reason why same car same engine would be spec'd 20wt in North America, yet 20, 30, 40 wt for the rest of the world. There is no puzzle pieces and the OP definitely doesn't know the answer as to why manufacturers do what they do.


This could be due to local availability of oils. Perhaps a 5W20 oil can protect an engine just as well as a 10W30, but 5W20 is just hard to find in some countries. It would be interesting to hear from people living in Europe, Russia, or say Brazil on the availability of 5W20 grade motor oil locally.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: tig1
Is 20 wt OK in my Fords?

Sure. Although most of the time it's running as a 30wt.


No, all of the time it's running as a 20 weight...it is by definition a 20 weight.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Zako2
This could be due to local availability of oils. Perhaps a 5W20 oil can protect an engine just as well as a 10W30, but 5W20 is just hard to find in some countries. It would be interesting to hear from people living in Europe, Russia, or say Brazil on the availability of 5W20 grade motor oil locally.


Been there, and done it to death, and people still say that it's a supply issue because outback Australia (the bush) has a supply and logistics train dating back to the 70s.

e.g. when Valvoline brought nextgen to Australia, they specifically made their new oil 15W-40, in diesel and petrol variants, with no other viscosities available.

It's a new oil, made out of the country, and they still made it especially a 40 weight.