BMW B58 Engine Oil Recommendation

[bigjl]

Going to change the oil in my B58 engines 7 Series next week

It’s always been filled with 0w30 BMW branded oil

So going for LL17FE+ 0w20 to see if running a thinner oil makes any discernible difference to economy.

Going to run that for a month, so roughly 3/4000 miles

Then run LL04 5w40 for a month

Not very scientific but I am going to reset the fuel computer to see what MPG I get over the first month and then do the same over the second month.

 

[edyvw]

Going to change the oil in my B58 engines 7 Series next week

It’s always been filled with 0w30 BMW branded oil

So going for LL17FE+ 0w20 to see if running a thinner oil makes any discernible difference to economy.

Going to run that for a month, so roughly 3/4000 miles

Then run LL04 5w40 for a month

Not very scientific but I am going to reset the fuel computer to see what MPG I get over the first month and then do the same over the second month.

It is not scientific at all, and there might be bunch of bias. Meaning, knowing you are doing “experiment” you might be easier or harder on gas pedal.

 

[chris719]

Not very scientific but I am going to reset the fuel computer to see what MPG I get over the first month and then do the same over the second month.

I agree with Edy. You will see more of a difference due to weather, traffic patterns, and ambient temperatures than the 0W-20 to 5W-40. My fuel economy in winter is worse than if I ran a 20W-50 in summer. I would simply look up SAE papers to get an idea of the order of magnitude of difference because those tests are done under controlled conditions.

 

[bigjl]

It is not scientific at all, and there might be bunch of bias. Meaning, knowing you are doing “experiment” you might be easier or harder on gas pedal.

Did you read the bit where I said it wasn’t scientific?

Or was that ignored to justify your bias?

I do the same journeys day in day out in the same traffic, with similar average speeds.

If you think there will be nothing to be noted then you won’t want to read what I discover will you ?

Personally I think it will make no difference whatsoever, and it’s best to use a thicker oil rather than thin

 

[edyvw]

Did you read the bit where I said it wasn’t scientific?

Or was that ignored to justify your bias?

I do the same journeys day in day out in the same traffic, with similar average speeds.

If you think there will be nothing to be noted then you won’t want to read what I discover will you ?

Personally I think it will make no difference whatsoever, and it’s best to use a thicker oil rather than thin

I read it, it is not scientific AT ALL.
Whatever you observe is absolutely irrelevant. Experiments don't work that way. I do them for a living.
There are too many variables, you don't have a control unit, etc, etc.
The only thing you can do remotely scientific is if you use 0W20, note weather, ambient temperature, time of the year (bcs. gas blend), and do, let's say, a 200ml trip. Then, use 5W40, very similar weather, ambient temperature, tire pressure, etc, do 200 mls trip. That is still long stretch, but at least you have some control over certain variables.

 

[Titan]

"Personally I think it will make no difference whatsoever, and it’s best to use a thicker oil rather than thin"

Yep. The difference between 10 cSt and 12.5 cSt at operating temp is miniscule. There will be no meaningful difference in MPG.

 

[bigjl]

I read it, it is not scientific AT ALL.
Whatever you observe is absolutely irrelevant. Experiments don't work that way. I do them for a living.
There are too many variables, you don't have a control unit, etc, etc.
The only thing you can do remotely scientific is if you use 0W20, note weather, ambient temperature, time of the year (bcs. gas blend), and do, let's say, a 200ml trip. Then, use 5W40, very similar weather, ambient temperature, tire pressure, etc, do 200 mls trip. That is still long stretch, but at least you have some control over certain variables.

So what does it mean when somebody says something is not scientific?

Does that means it’s scientific ?

Or do pedants on the internet think they can ignore what somebody wrote because they like the sound of their own voice and like to answer in an irrelevant manner?

 

[Eugenius]

By the way, that Motul is old stuff. New LL01FE Motul is 0W30 and HTHS is 3.

Well to be fair, you compared full-SAPS Castrol oil with low SAPS FE oil and
to compare apples to apples, here is newish full-SAPS ll-01 stuff from Motul

X-max HTHS 3.6 Pour point -51
X-CESS GEN2 HTHS 3.8


Both available from fcp euro with LTR for easy and free replenish

 

[chris719]

Well to be fair, you compared full-SAPS Castrol oil with low SAPS FE oil and
to compare apples to apples, here is newish full-SAPS ll-01 stuff from Motul

X-max HTHS 3.6 Pour point -51
X-CESS GEN2 HTHS 3.8


Both available from fcp euro with LTR for easy and free replenish

LL01FE is not low SAPS, it is full SAPS. This stuff has been covered about a million times.

 

[Eugenius]

LL01FE is not low SAPS, it is full SAPS. This stuff has been covered about a million times.

you did not get it, did not say anything about FE in the post
Motu ll01 vs Castrol ll01

 

[chris719]

you did not get it, did not say anything about FE in the post
Motu ll01 vs Castrol ll01

The Motul FE oil discussed, that you yourself quoted, is not low saps. It is LL01FE full SAPS.

 

[Eugenius]

The Motul FE oil discussed, that you yourself quoted, is not low saps. It is LL01FE full SAPS.

yes, maybe I missed it by just looking at ACEA A5/B5 of the Motul FE

the reply meant for Edy, meaning Motul has comparable LL01 A3/B4 oils to Castrol LL01 A3/B4

 

[chris719]

yes, maybe I missed it by just looking at ACEA A5/B5 of the Motul FE

the reply meant for Edy, meaning Motul has comparable LL01 A3/B4 oils to Castrol LL01 A3/B4

Perhaps the disconnect and why Edy compared it is that Castrol, unusually for them, writes Suitable For Use for LL01FE on the bottles of that now. Which is of course Castrol's opinion and we all know it's a 3.5 HTHS LL01.

 

[edyvw]

So what does it mean when somebody says something is not scientific?

Does that means it’s scientific ?

Or do pedants on the internet think they can ignore what somebody wrote because they like the sound of their own voice and like to answer in an irrelevant manner?

Not very scientific but I am going to reset the fuel computer to see what MPG I get over the first month and then do the same over the second month.

So, how scientific is it?

 

[edyvw]

Well to be fair, you compared full-SAPS Castrol oil with low SAPS FE oil and
to compare apples to apples, here is newish full-SAPS ll-01 stuff from Motul

X-max HTHS 3.6 Pour point -51
X-CESS GEN2 HTHS 3.8


Both available from fcp euro with LTR for easy and free replenish

I am very well aware of what Motul offers.
I might be using it.
Still, Castrol 0W30 is the best of the best in ACEA A4/B4 stuff.
As for LL01FE, I do not do water oils.

 

[bigjl]

First oil change from BMW 0w30 going in today.

Fuel consumption on 0w30 over more than 4000 miles was 25.8mpg

Using 5w40 Shell HX8 meeting LL04, its also meets the oil spec for our 0.9 Turbo Smart For Four, so the 5w30 is being replaced with this aswell, the Smart will use oil when 5w30 is used, on checked various websites the oil recommendation for the 0.9Turbo (Renault engine) now seems to be 5w40 rather than 5w30.

Filter in the B58 is the usual Mann filter

 

[Marcozi]

First oil change from BMW 0w30 going in today.

Fuel consumption on 0w30 over more than 4000 miles was 25.8mpg

Using 5w40 Shell HX8 meeting LL04, its also meets the oil spec for our 0.9 Turbo Smart For Four, so the 5w30 is being replaced with this aswell, the Smart will use oil when 5w30 is used, on checked various websites the oil recommendation for the 0.9Turbo (Renault engine) now seems to be 5w40 rather than 5w30.

Filter in the B58 is the usual Mann filter

a XW40 is too thick IMHO. An XW30 is fine.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Going to change the oil in my B58 engines 7 Series next week

It’s always been filled with 0w30 BMW branded oil

So going for LL17FE+ 0w20 to see if running a thinner oil makes any discernible difference to economy.

Going to run that for a month, so roughly 3/4000 miles

Then run LL04 5w40 for a month

Not very scientific but I am going to reset the fuel computer to see what MPG I get over the first month and then do the same over the second month.

I applaud you for actually doing something. I will be interested to know the results, even though I know that they likely won't apply to me anyway.

 

[bigjl]

I applaud you for actually doing something. I will be interested to know the results, even though I know that they likely won't apply to me anyway.

1st lot of oil and a Mann filter have been purchased.

Swapped the order though and 1st change is the 5w40 Shell HX8 as it was on offer at EuroCarParts for £36 for 5 litres, and the Smart For Four is due an oil change in March so two birds with one stone as the HX8 is not only LL04 it’s also RN700/710 which is the spec for the ForFour

Will be interesting to see if there is any fuel consumption difference in the ForFour as it only has a 0.9 turbo engine.

The MPG hasn’t been reset very often, over 10k miles it returned 46.2 mpg, I reset it a couple of months ago and it’s now showing 46.4mpg over 1500 miles.

We have had that since new, 80 odd miles on the clock back in September 2017, and it now has just shy of 62k miles.

Other than servicing, tyres and a set of front brakes it’s been a reliable old hector.

 

[bigjl]

a XW40 is too thick IMHO. An XW30 is fine.

B58 is specced for 5w40 from new.

In Europe anyway.

Don’t really care what BMW USA recommend, they didn’t engineer the B58 engine.

You can put 0w20 in it, and I will be doing so after running 5w40

If over 4000 miles the car shows no improvement in fuel economy in real world usage I would suggest it’s a pointless to run it.

Thicker oil will always protect an engine better if it’s designed to run that oil.

The whole point is to see if there is any discernible change in fuel consumption between the 0w30 LL04 that BMW use in the UK, the 0w20 LL17FE+ that is also specced for the engine in the UK (and in the USA from what I have seen) and the thickest oil specced by BMW for this engine in the UK which is LL04 5w40.

I would be over the moon if I could get 2mpg more by simply using the LL17FE+ oil.

But I don’t think there will be a difference

Therefore it makes sense to run 5w40

After all I want 200k miles out of this engine