BMW M3 (F80) Oil Selection & SAPS concern - S55

[SJM3]

Long time lurker and first time poster. Who knew learning about oil and how it impacts motors could be so interesting.

The purpose of this post is to seek some validation around the correlation between SAPS and direct injection and finding the right balance with performance and protection in mind.

The M3 is new to me (purchased earlier this year); 2017 built with 46K kms on the clock (I purchased it with 41K on the clock).

I did an oil change soon after at 43K using Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40 gen2 based on a detailed oil thread on the F80 Bimmerpost forum. The last oil change was at 38K prior to my ownership and based on a conversation with the previous owners mechanic they used 0w-40 Mobil (not sure what spec)

Reasons for my choice

- Oil fits the LL-01 approval and my understanding is that BMW recommended either 0w-30/0w-40 in the initial release of the car.
- M3 is stage 2+ modified (catless downpipes, uprated plugs, air filters and tune) and has also been tuned for E30 blend fuel
- Figured running an oil with HTHS of 3.8 would offer some better protection due to the increased load on a tuned engine;
- My plans were to run the ethanol map once a month as most of my driving is in the city with mixed traffic and lots of start/dtop (therefore fuel dilution) however due to practicality I haven't been running this tune and sticking to 98 RON fuel map.
- Positive feedback from users

My plan is to perform an oil analysis on the next oil change at 48K (5k km interval).

To cut to the chase, the sulfated ash of this oil is 1.1% which is considered on the higher side.

Should I be concerned about running this oil long-term and it impacting the carbon build up or due to any other reasons?

Are there any alternative oils with lower SAPS that meet the use-case? I was looking at Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 as a second choice since it is a thinner 40 weight at the time but opted for Motul instead.

For context I'm based in Australia

 

[Jetronic]

No, there's no correlation with SAPS and carbon buildup. There is a correlation between base oil quality and viscosity (and the necessary Viscosity index improvers) and carbon build up.

Low or Mid-saps oils require the use of better base oils to make long drain intervals, high saps oils don't. So if you shop by cost for a high saps oil you will likely get inferior base oils. But the top of the range oils tend to get the better base stocks anyway.

Where the high saps makes a difference is in the exhaust treatment, if you have an engine that consumes oil. But your car doesn't even have exhaust treatment anymore.

You could go for a mid saps oil if it helps you sleep at night, but if you do look for one with a higher flash point (as an indication of the base oils used, thinner oils have lower flash points). The Shell Helix 5W-40 would do.

 

[FranklinJL]

Umm. Well I'm guessing you're car makes close to 700hp on E30, all the stock answers go away. Stick with a good Euro 40w. That S58 is a good motor. That the Motul 5w40 is a great oil also. Stick with it

 

[chris719]

Use the Motul XCess Gen 2 5W-40, SHU 5W-40, or Ravenol VST 5W-40. I kind of like the Ravenol best if the price isn't crazy where you are. On ethanol you could also consider M1 X2 5W-50.

 

[shortyb]

Make sure whichever oil analysis service you use, that they do a proper fuel dilution test. Preferred is a closed cup with a GC (gas chromatography) read will give most accurate result of fuel content in the oil. If it turns out your engine is a serious diluter, @chris719 suggestion of the M1 5W-50 is a good one, especially for E in the mix on a tune. I'm sure the Shell has a lower Noack due to GTL, and oil vapor handling is critical for deposit mitigation, so that may be a good choice too. For now, the Motul will do just fine for the interval you selected.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

No, there's no correlation with SAPS and carbon buildup.

Lubrizol would disagree.

My plan is to perform an oil analysis on the next oil change at 48K (5k km interval).

To cut to the chase, the sulfated ash of this oil is 1.1% which is considered on the higher side.

Should I be concerned about running this oil long-term and it impacting the carbon build up or due to any other reasons?

Are there any alternative oils with lower SAPS that meet the use-case? I was looking at Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 as a second choice since it is a thinner 40 weight at the time but opted for Motul instead.

For context I'm based in Australia

You're going to want to measure fuel dilution especially when using ethanol. Depending on the degree of fuel dilution you could continue to use any LL01 5w40 or maybe have to look for something different like LiquiMoly 10w60, Shell 10w60 or Redline 10w40,50, or 60.

 

[chris719]

Lubrizol would disagree.

BMW fills S55 and S58 with LL01/FE in the US and I’ve never seen any real carbon buildup issue on teardowns. If there is an effect it is clearly dominated by your engine’s PCV/AOS functionality. In this case I’d say there’s no reason to seek out mid SAPS.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

BMW fills S55 and S58 with LL01/FE in the US and I’ve never seen any real carbon buildup issue on teardowns. If there is an effect it is clearly dominated by your engine’s PCV/AOS functionality. In this case I’d say there’s no reason to seek out mid SAPS.

No surprise as the design of the PCV system plays an primary role but I'd bet if you compared to of the same TGDI engines that there would be comparatively less buildup in the engine using Cx oils. So perhaps we can all agree that the SAPS levels play a secondary rather than primary role in the amount of build up.

 

[Jetronic]

Lubrizol would disagree.


You're going to want to measure fuel dilution especially when using ethanol. Depending on the degree of fuel dilution you could continue to use any LL01 5w40 or maybe have to look for something different like LiquiMoly 10w60, Shell 10w60 or Redline 10w40,50, or 60.

Yes I know they would, and I would too if at the time I had the only mid saps add pack for sale....

 

[edyvw]

Yes I know they would, and I would too if at the time I had the only mid saps add pack for sale....

Their disagreement is not based on their sales pitch but on test. We talked about that here for the first time, probably 10 years ago.

 

[edyvw]

Long time lurker and first time poster. Who knew learning about oil and how it impacts motors could be so interesting.

The purpose of this post is to seek some validation around the correlation between SAPS and direct injection and finding the right balance with performance and protection in mind.

The M3 is new to me (purchased earlier this year); 2017 built with 46K kms on the clock (I purchased it with 41K on the clock).

I did an oil change soon after at 43K using Motul 8100 X-cess 5w40 gen2 based on a detailed oil thread on the F80 Bimmerpost forum. The last oil change was at 38K prior to my ownership and based on a conversation with the previous owners mechanic they used 0w-40 Mobil (not sure what spec)

Reasons for my choice

- Oil fits the LL-01 approval and my understanding is that BMW recommended either 0w-30/0w-40 in the initial release of the car.
- M3 is stage 2+ modified (catless downpipes, uprated plugs, air filters and tune) and has also been tuned for E30 blend fuel
- Figured running an oil with HTHS of 3.8 would offer some better protection due to the increased load on a tuned engine;
- My plans were to run the ethanol map once a month as most of my driving is in the city with mixed traffic and lots of start/dtop (therefore fuel dilution) however due to practicality I haven't been running this tune and sticking to 98 RON fuel map.
- Positive feedback from users

My plan is to perform an oil analysis on the next oil change at 48K (5k km interval).

To cut to the chase, the sulfated ash of this oil is 1.1% which is considered on the higher side.

Should I be concerned about running this oil long-term and it impacting the carbon build up or due to any other reasons?

Are there any alternative oils with lower SAPS that meet the use-case? I was looking at Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 as a second choice since it is a thinner 40 weight at the time but opted for Motul instead.

For context I'm based in Australia

Stick to the thickest 5W40 or move to 5W50. You run E30; there is no place for thin oils there.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yes I know they would, and I would too if at the time I had the only mid saps add pack for sale....

It was a little different back then as emissions standards required these new additive packages.

Lubrizol Presentation

 

[Jetronic]

It was a little different back then as emissions standards required these new additive packages.

Lubrizol Presentation

I was in the middle of that transition. No matter what the factory fill was, even in 2008 nearly every car still got full-saps oils. And PSA had been using dpf's since 1997 or so.

The drive was mainly to lighter oils to meet emissions standards.

 

[svenson]

very interesting conversation here

 

[svenson]

No, there's no correlation with SAPS and carbon buildup. There is a correlation between base oil quality and viscosity (and the necessary Viscosity index improvers) and carbon build up.

Low or Mid-saps oils require the use of better base oils to make long drain intervals, high saps oils don't. So if you shop by cost for a high saps oil you will likely get inferior base oils. But the top of the range oils tend to get the better base stocks anyway.

Where the high saps makes a difference is in the exhaust treatment, if you have an engine that consumes oil. But your car doesn't even have exhaust treatment anymore.

You could go for a mid saps oil if it helps you sleep at night, but if you do look for one with a higher flash point (as an indication of the base oils used, thinner oils have lower flash points). The Shell Helix 5W-40 would do.

if you have an engine that consumes oil, what kind of difference will a high saps oil make ?

and when you talk about higher flash point ,from what point a flash point is considered high? 220 , 230?

 

[Jetronic]

if you have an engine that consumes oil, what kind of difference will a high saps oil make ?

and when you talk about higher flash point ,from what point a flash point is considered high? 220 , 230?

with a high saps oil you get more metals going into the exhaust. On a diesel that meansabout 50% more chance of plugging the dpf, on a gas engine It's the phosphorous that can poison the catalytic converter. the phos^horous content can be around 20% higher, typically.

Flashpoint has to be considered for every grade seperately. 220 is low for nearly all grades though, 230 is on the higher side for some.

Pick a grade of interest, check the reported flaspoints for several oils, then compare to HPL or Red Line for example.

 

[edyvw]

with a high saps oil you get more metals going into the exhaust. On a diesel that meansabout 50% more chance of plugging the dpf, on a gas engine It's the phosphorous that can poison the catalytic converter. the phos^horous content can be around 20% higher, typically.

Flashpoint has to be considered for every grade seperately. 220 is low for nearly all grades though, 230 is on the higher side for some.

Pick a grade of interest, check the reported flaspoints for several oils, then compare to HPL or Red Line for example.

flashpoint results depend on methodology used. So, different methodology will result in different results. Castrol is prime example.
If comparing flashpoints, methodology must be same.

 

[svenson]

flashpoint results depend on methodology used. So, different methodology will result in different results. Castrol is prime example.
If comparing flashpoints, methodology must be same.

you mean open cap vs closed cap flash point.whats the diffrence in points between 2? or you cant do this ? i mean,
if you have 2 oils with different methods then can you somehow calculate/compare the point between these 2 or not?

 

[edyvw]

you mean open cap vs closed cap flash point.whats the diffrence in points between 2? or you cant do this ? i mean,
if you have 2 oils with different methods then can you somehow calculate/compare the point between these 2 or not?

You told people to compare it not to calculate it. So, explain what you meant as no one will post which methodology is which.
Also, Zinc is primary cause of catalytic converter failure.

 

[svenson]

with a high saps oil you get more metals going into the exhaust. On a diesel that meansabout 50% more chance of plugging the dpf, on a gas engine It's the phosphorous that can poison the catalytic converter. the phos^horous content can be around 20% higher, typically.

Flashpoint has to be considered for every grade seperately. 220 is low for nearly all grades though, 230 is on the higher side for some.

Pick a grade of interest, check the reported flaspoints for several oils, then compare to HPL or Red Line for example.

oh ,i see you refer to the gas and diesel,ok..i know about this .
i thought you meant between a gas that consumes oil and a gas that doesn't.
hpl for euro 5-30 has 216 flashpoint,kind of low isnt it? redline i cant find any