Amsoil or HPL?

[Big_B]

I think the Amsoil 15w40 DME signature series is really good. Has fantastic cold flow and HTHS(4.5).
It doesn't have any PAO but is a mixture of like 5 different base oils.
It's what I run in my turbo changed tractor.
I am going to run HPL 0w30 supercar in my snowmobile. I really like the specs on that oil too -72pp and almost 3.6 HTHS.

 

[buster]

Unless someone were to run actual engine tests, I don't see how anyone could determine one is better than the other.

 

[kschachn]

I think the Amsoil 15w40 DME signature series is really good. Has fantastic cold flow and HTHS(4.5).
It doesn't have any PAO but is a mixture of like 5 different base oils.
It's what I run in my turbo changed tractor.
I am going to run HPL 0w30 supercar in my snowmobile. I really like the specs on that oil too -72pp and almost 3.6 HTHS.

The Amsoil still has a 15W winter rating regardless of how fantastic the “cold flow” may be.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

While I’ve used both oils (and numerous others) and I don’t think you can go wrong with either one when properly controlling time in service for either oil, one company encourages me to talk directly to the owner, and I get direct responses back. I can even see the fruits of my efforts by, in a short time, seeing the products I need (& sometimes want) on the website for purchase. That’s the one I’m choosing to spend my dollars with these days.

In the BITOG world before HPL came along, Amsoil was in top 3 because they had earned it. This hasn’t changed. They still make great products.

We should all feel blessed that HPL has come into our house and is intent on gaining our business based on data, experience, and top-shelf oil components. If you don’t use it, that’s cool too. But those who need/want lubricants par excellence that have a stellar pedigree should patronize HPL to show them their time & effort is appreciated. I’m picking up nearly 8 gallons of HPLs finest lubes for my EcoBoost next week! And if “all” you can or want to spring for is Amsoil, you’re still in great hands with them!

Man, it’s a great time to be alive as an oil junkie!

 

[dnewton3]

1) both Amsoil and HPL are, IMO, outstanding product lines that serve niche markets; they're top tier for sure
2) both Pablo and Dave Ward are outstanding representatives of their brands; ethical and honest when sharing info, and in sales efforts
3) I would confess that I have personally "bashed" folks (chastised; raked over the carbon briquettes) for using Amsoil, but NOT because it's Amsoil. I've also "bashed' folks for using M1, Schaeffers and a whole host of other super-premium syns. If all you're going to do is drive a typical life, and OCI every 3-5k miles, then waste should be your primary concern, not which brand of synthetic you choose.

OP - you are unlikely to be able to discern/experience a difference between the two brands, so find something that makes you "feel" good about your decision and move on.

 

[Big_B]

The Amsoil still has a 15W winter rating regardless of how fantastic the “cold flow” may be.

Yes and it works great for my application.

 

[Nesterenko]

I want 2 point something out here, the next time you go by the OLM and change your oil, take a sample and send it 2 Blackstone and let us know what the TBN is? You might be surprised, and not in a good way!

You must know by now TBN is not linear. Each oil brand has different TBN retention rates. Some get a lower number quicker than others but hang on to that number for longer. Shall I say 2ouché?

 

[Skippy722]

While I’ve used both oils (and numerous others) and I don’t think you can go wrong with either one when properly controlling time in service for either oil, one company encourages me to talk directly to the owner, and I get direct responses back. I can even see the fruits of my efforts by, in a short time, seeing the products I need (& sometimes want) on the website for purchase. That’s the one I’m choosing to spend my dollars with these days.

In the BITOG world before HPL came along, Amsoil was in top 3 because they had earned it. This hasn’t changed. They still make great products.

We should all feel blessed that HPL has come into our house and is intent on gaining our business based on data, experience, and top-shelf oil components. If you don’t use it, that’s cool too. But those who need/want lubricants par excellence that have a stellar pedigree should patronize HPL to show them their time & effort is appreciated. I’m picking up nearly 8 gallons of HPLs finest lubes for my EcoBoost next week! And if “all” you can or want to spring for is Amsoil, you’re still in great hands with them!

Man, it’s a great time to be alive as an oil junkie!

That reminds me, I need 3 more gallons of HPL for the cars and some for the zero turn… not sure what line to get for the mower, it’s got Rotella T5 or T6 15w40 in it right now.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Yes for sure as soon as they get to $22.97

 

[Deleted member 89374]

That statement is based on…what?

You tease. Why hold back?

My time is more limited than ever due to work.

Anyway, here is the long and short of it:

All my AMSOIL ATL (blue cap) is from 2021 and early 2022. I still have about five gallons left, quart bottles included. This remaining ATF will go on eBay as soon as I have time to list it.

This ATF was blended with the Lubrizol DI package that makes the ATF smell like a cat litter box. I changed the fluid in two Hyundai vehicles and a RAM 1500 pickup truck with this AMSOIL ATL product. I did three to four drains and fills in each (three in the RAM 1500 8HP70). The shift quality is nothing to write home about in any of these vehicles. The shifts are quick and hard, especially at low speeds or when punching the accelerator pedal. One of the Hyundai vehicles was sold, the other one was switched to Mobil 1 LV ATF HP. That made a huge difference in the way it shifts, like night and day. Mobil 1 LV ATF HP (blue label) basically restored that OEM shift quality to the vehicle, and I dare to say that it even improved upon it. Shifts are now quick and and crisp, barely, if at all, perceptible. Now when I punch it on the freeway to merge or pass someone and the transmission kicks down a couple of gears, it doesn't feel like it's about to explode and come apart. It's just silky-smooth.

The RAM 1500 will be upgraded to HPL Green ATF CC as soon as I have time to do so. Next in line are the Jeep and Durango, along with PPE oil pan upgrades.

I checked the AMSOIL MSDS for red cap (ATF) and blue cap (ATL). It looks like AMSOIL updated the documents around mid-2022 and that they reformulated their ATFs. I'm pretty sure AMSOIL quietly upgraded their DI package. I believe the friction modification chemistry wasn't that great in the previous iteration, the one that I purchased. I hope that AMSOIL finally addressed the issue. Even Valvoline moved on from that same DI package in their Max Life ATF product. Red Line is the only one that seems to not care and continues to use that same DI package. Because of that, Red Line can't even get their D6 ATF to be Dexron HP compatible, I posted about this in another thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-ep-vs-castrol-gold-ep.362381/page-6#post-6305936

I spent my own money and wasted my own time to find out the hard way what not to buy. Anyone who's doubting me is more than welcome to spend their time and money and find out. I'm also not interested in reading from anyone how I don't know anything, and that AMSOIL makes great products. That's because I am not putting AMSOIL down, as I have purchased many of their automotive and heavy duty lubricants and did not have any issues with most of them, except for their blue cap ATL product. I believe that any company, no matter how good, can put out a mediocre product once in a while. I'm not even blaming AMSOIL for this one, as much as I'm blaming their additive supplier. However, since their additive supplier is not public knowledge, the blame, technically, falls back on them.

I will not spend even more time and money to buy some more AMSOIL ATL, take a sample from the new formulation, and one from the old formulation, and send them out for VOA just to verify that AMSOIL indeed upgraded their DI package. There are a number of reviews on AMSOIL's website that criticize the shift quality, you just have to search for them.

To be completely fair: AMSOIL ATL worked okay in the 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport that I sold. However, that 6-speed transmission was programmed for slow shifts. Anyone interested can search for reviews on this particular model and see that many auto journalists complained about how slow this thing shifted and how clunky it was. I mean, with a gutless 2.4L engine in a heavy vehicle that's to be expected.

As far as I'm concerned, I trust two brands for high quality products:

• Above all, I trust HPL. With @High Performance Lubricants I get what I pay for and I always know what I get. Mr. David Ward has been, and continues to be, an invaluable resource to this community. The amount of knowledge he brings to the table is priceless.
• Mobil (Mobil 1 / Delvac / Delvac 1) products for vehicles that I don't have HPL products on hand. This is my second choice after HPL.
• If necessary, I will use other brands in a pinch. However, the above are my top choices, in the order I listed them.

 

[buster]

As far as I'm concerned, I trust two brands for high quality products:

• Above all, I trust HPL. With @High Performance Lubricants I get what I pay for and I always know what I get. Mr. David Ward has been, and continues to be, an invaluable resource to this community. The amount of knowledge he brings to the table is priceless.
• Mobil (Mobil 1 / Delvac / Delvac 1) products for vehicles that I don't have HPL products on hand. This is my second choice after HPL.
• If necessary, I will use other brands in a pinch. However, the above are my top choices, in the order I listed them.

Good choices. The UOAs with HPL have looked consistently good. Very high TBN retention. Amsoil, Red Line are the other two boutique oils with a solid reputation within the boutique world. However I do find the vast majority of the boutique oils questionable with little value for PCMO, especially considering how the top tier major formulations trounce the industry standard specifications. Diminishing returns.

Quantum Blue
Puroil
Royal Purple
Maxima
NEO

....those I have no interest in and never have. Driven is probably good based on those in racing that have used their oils. I haven't seen any UOA's though that wow'd me with that brand. I know LN Engineering likes Driven but I find they don't know much about oil based on some of the commentary I've seen on their FB page.

 

[fantastic]

I think we've entered into a new black hole on this one. There's something "There" but we can't see it.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Quantum Blue

I remember you posted this not long after I joined BITOG: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/quantum-blue-srt8-uoa-question.331191/

I don't think Quantum Blue qualifies as a blender of any kind.

@MolaKule summed up pretty well what Quantum Blue is doing: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/quantum-blue-srt8-uoa-question.331191/page-4#post-5515979

@MolaKule:

My "Hunch" (unsupported theory, educated guess) is that this QB bunch is taking off the shelf oils, and thinking they can somehow "boost" them, are adding something like a multi-functional phosphate additive in levels that are dangerous to CATs and could possibly build up dangerous levels of phosphoric and nitric acids.

The word they use is "customizing" which tells me they think they are making oils custom designed for your vehicle by changing the viscosity to arrive at their weird viscosity grades ranges and additive content. My opinion is they are setting a dangerous precedent by doing this. yet convincing some of the unsuspecting (uneducated) public they are smarter than engine engineers and the API.

 

[Big_B]

My time is more limited than ever due to work.

Anyway, here is the long and short of it:

All my AMSOIL ATL (blue cap) is from 2021 and early 2022. I still have about five gallons left, quart bottles included. This remaining ATF will go on eBay as soon as I have time to list it.

This ATF was blended with the Lubrizol DI package that makes the ATF smell like a cat litter box. I changed the fluid in two Hyundai vehicles and a RAM 1500 pickup truck with this AMSOIL ATL product. I did three to four drains and fills in each (three in the RAM 1500 8HP70). The shift quality is nothing to write home about in any of these vehicles. The shifts are quick and hard, especially at low speeds or when punching the accelerator pedal. One of the Hyundai vehicles was sold, the other one was switched to Mobil 1 LV ATF HP. That made a huge difference in the way it shifts, like night and day. Mobil 1 LV ATF HP (blue label) basically restored that OEM shift quality to the vehicle, and I dare to say that it even improved upon it. Shifts are now quick and and crisp, barely, if at all, perceptible. Now when I punch it on the freeway to merge or pass someone and the transmission kicks down a couple of gears, it doesn't feel like it's about to explode and come apart. It's just silky-smooth.

The RAM 1500 will be upgraded to HPL Green ATF CC as soon as I have time to do so. Next in line are the Jeep and Durango, along with PPE oil pan upgrades.

I checked the AMSOIL MSDS for red cap (ATF) and blue cap (ATL). It looks like AMSOIL updated the documents around mid-2022 and that they reformulated their ATFs. I'm pretty sure AMSOIL quietly upgraded their DI package. I believe the friction modification chemistry wasn't that great in the previous iteration, the one that I purchased. I hope that AMSOIL finally addressed the issue. Even Valvoline moved on from that same DI package in their Max Life ATF product. Red Line is the only one that seems to not care and continues to use that same DI package. Because of that, Red Line can't even get their D6 ATF to be Dexron HP compatible, I posted about this in another thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-ep-vs-castrol-gold-ep.362381/page-6#post-6305936

I spent my own money and wasted my own time to find out the hard way what not to buy. Anyone who's doubting me is more than welcome to spend their time and money and find out. I'm also not interested in reading from anyone how I don't know anything, and that AMSOIL makes great products. That's because I am not putting AMSOIL down, as I have purchased many of their automotive and heavy duty lubricants and did not have any issues with most of them, except for their blue cap ATL product. I believe that any company, no matter how good, can put out a mediocre product once in a while. I'm not even blaming AMSOIL for this one, as much as I'm blaming their additive supplier. However, since their additive supplier is not public knowledge, the blame, technically, falls back on them.

I will not spend even more time and money to buy some more AMSOIL ATL, take a sample from the new formulation, and one from the old formulation, and send them out for VOA just to verify that AMSOIL indeed upgraded their DI package. There are a number of reviews on AMSOIL's website that criticize the shift quality, you just have to search for them.

To be completely fair: AMSOIL ATL worked okay in the 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport that I sold. However, that 6-speed transmission was programmed for slow shifts. Anyone interested can search for reviews on this particular model and see that many auto journalists complained about how slow this thing shifted and how clunky it was. I mean, with a gutless 2.4L engine in a heavy vehicle that's to be expected.

As far as I'm concerned, I trust two brands for high quality products:

• Above all, I trust HPL. With @High Performance Lubricants I get what I pay for and I always know what I get. Mr. David Ward has been, and continues to be, an invaluable resource to this community. The amount of knowledge he brings to the table is priceless.
• Mobil (Mobil 1 / Delvac / Delvac 1) products for vehicles that I don't have HPL products on hand. This is my second choice after HPL.
• If necessary, I will use other brands in a pinch. However, the above are my top choices, in the order I listed them.

I put the Amsoil signature series low viscosity transmission fluid in my Toyota Tundra.
Within about 100 miles it shifted very harshly.
Was a waste of money. Put the Toyota WS back in and it eventually went back to normal shifting.
Definitely will never buy that again.
I do like their Diesel and Power sports oil.

 

[Josh0419]

I run HPL in my wife's 2022 Jeep GC WK2 (check it out: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ted-ups-just-dropped-off-the-packages.355350/).

I run Red Line in my 2022 Dodge Durango GT Plus AWD and our 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe SE.

We also have a RAM 1500 (my dad's) running entirely on AMSOIL. The engine is running SS 5W-30.

My brother's 2020 Sonata will be converted to HPL as well. Oh, my mom runs Red Line in her 2017 Santa Fe SE.

All of these companies make outstanding products. If I found HPL earlier, I would most likely run HPL in all of our vehicles. On the flip side, trying out various brands is also fun.

If I was running a race team and needed lubricants tailored to my needs, HPL, hands down!

For your Subaru WRX I recommend you go with HPL because they offer the widest selection of formulations, and sometimes, they even make a custom blend for you, like this one here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/full-saps-a3-b4-a40-style-euro-lube-with-a-twist.356693

If you like to push your Subaru but are concerned about LSPI, then HPL offers their Premium Plus PCMO with HTHS above 3.5, which is something you won't find from any other manufacturer. If you want a more robust anti-wear package FULL-SAPS style, look no further than their Supercar line. They also offer HDMO and low-mid SAPS Euro oils in their Euro lineup. You have plenty of very good options with @High Performance Lubricants - just ask them for a recommendation that fits your application and driving style.

I called HPL they didn’t explain any of that. Maybe i need to talk to someone else there. They made it sound like they had one oil in 5w40 euro.

 

[dnewton3]

I called HPL they didn’t explain any of that. Maybe i need to talk to someone else there. They made it sound like they had one oil in 5w40 euro.

Their Euro formula is available in 0w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30 and 5w-40.
They had a slew of other oils, for various applications.
Have you reviewed their website? www.hplubricants.com
See their sales link https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...icants/products/euro-passenger-car-engine-oil

Try sending a PM to them on this site; it may take a while for Dave Ward to get back with you - he's very busy and isn't on this site every day.

 

[Josh0419]

Their Euro formula is available in 0w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30 and 5w-40.
They had a slew of other oils, for various applications.
Have you reviewed their website? www.hplubricants.com
See their sales link https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...icants/products/euro-passenger-car-engine-oil

Try sending a PM to them on this site; it may take a while for Dave Ward to get back with you - he's very busy and isn't on this site every day.

Ok thanks I will, which one are they Ive seen HPL boost and High performance Lubricants. 2 different sites.

 

[Skippy722]

Ok thanks I will, which one are they Ive seen HPL boost and High performance Lubricants. 2 different sites.

The gray bottle/red logo HPL is Harry Hruska’s (of Precision Turbo fame) own spec oils blended by High Performance Lubricants. These oils are geared more towards “street/strip” or flat out race cars.

The black bottle “High Performance Lubricants” stuff is developed by Dr. Leslie Rudnick, a very renowned person in lubricants. This is the stuff almost all of us “HPL” users use. Advlubrication.com is the site you want.

 

[Chief119]

It’s really a easy decision for me, you ask a question about two different brands of oil, the main guy from one of the companies just responded to your question, that right there would make my mind up very easily without ever looking back.

 

[Pablo]

It’s really a easy decision for me, you ask a question about two different brands of oil, the main guy from one of the companies just responded to your question, that right there would make my mind up very easily without ever looking back.

"I called HPL they didn’t explain any of that. Maybe i need to talk to someone else there."

??? Sounds like most all other oil companies. There really is a reason BITOG exists.