You might find this version easier to read:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5602086&id=95ohAAAAEBAJ&dq=5602086
Alkylated Napthalene benefits
- Thread starter JAG
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You might find this version easier to read:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5602086&id=95ohAAAAEBAJ&dq=5602086
For what it is worth My opinion
AN's can have better Oxidation, thermal and hydrolytic
stability than POE's.
Cost is about same.
Improvement on finished oils oxidation stability is good.
LC nor are any other "additives" are not needed since latest oils if run to correct OCI's using lab interpitation will protect against ring sticking and oxidation. And lastly fuel dilution Again IMHO no comment needed.
bruce
AN's can have better Oxidation, thermal and hydrolytic
stability than POE's.
Cost is about same.
Improvement on finished oils oxidation stability is good.
LC nor are any other "additives" are not needed since latest oils if run to correct OCI's using lab interpitation will protect against ring sticking and oxidation. And lastly fuel dilution Again IMHO no comment needed.
bruce
The whole point in using LC, IMO, is to extend the usable life of conventional motor oil out to OCIs traditionally only within the reach of full synthetics.
Terry has talked many times about this.
If you're going to change the oil every 3K to 5K, or 6 months, then LC isn't needed. If you're going to keep it in there for 12+ months and/or 7500+ miles, then LC can make a difference.
Terry has talked many times about this.
If you're going to change the oil every 3K to 5K, or 6 months, then LC isn't needed. If you're going to keep it in there for 12+ months and/or 7500+ miles, then LC can make a difference.
That is true G, but a lot of people are adding it to $6-$9qt oils and running them for 8k miles and scratching their heads wondering what the #@$%! LC did, if anything. I was told at one time to add LC to RL. If a $9qt of oil can't make it 10k miles with ease, I'm not using it.
The results I've seen that are positive tend to be with conventional oils as you said. In full synthetics, I have yet to see it.
Hi Bruce,
I'll give you the hydrolytic stability, not sure about thermal stability, but not the oxidative stability vs POEs.
We evaluated two grades of AN from one supplier for high temperature oxdiative stability and coking tendencies against equivalent viscosity POEs, and it wasn't even close. The ANs gave percent viscosity increases of 3 to 15 times the POEs, acid increases of 1.5 to 6 times the POEs, and much more deposits. However, these tests were designed for evaluating jet engine oils and were run at 425F to 540F, far beyond car engines. At car engine temperatures the differences in oxidative stability may not show up at all, and ANs may be the equal to POEs in oxidation in your car, but I wouldn't use them jet engine oils.
Tom
I agree about >500F temps.
Also I used AN's not from the "big Guys" And I should have said that I was not looking at 100% AN but 10% in a GPIII mix as a solvency additive so I guess I must clarify more.
bruce
Also I used AN's not from the "big Guys" And I should have said that I was not looking at 100% AN but 10% in a GPIII mix as a solvency additive so I guess I must clarify more.
bruce
I have often wondered exactly how Schaeffers makes the 7000 Blend last so long.
I have seen it last as long as Mobil 1 in some applications.
Got to wonder if something like LC might not be part of the formula.
I have seen it last as long as Mobil 1 in some applications.
Got to wonder if something like LC might not be part of the formula.
Well the 7000 series uses the Penetro penetrationg fluid additve which is the same principle but wait.. I was excited thinking I would find something neat in the Penetro MSDS.... Then I read something that has me concerned... first the PDS for #701 #701 pdf "Further blended into these synthetic blend base fluids, the highly advanced
proprietary performance additive package and shear stability viscosity index
improver are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type
of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg’s own proprietary additive Penetro® ."
So OK what's in Penetro you ask ? Maybe something like LC ??
..
Really I didn't set out to find this!!
Teflon 9002-84-0 2-4%
Teflon in Penetro
Also known as PTFE Fluropolymer
I was hoping to find a neat chemical but not that one. The antimony add is nice but please tell me the Penetro used in combination in the add pack does not have the Teflon in it.
proprietary performance additive package and shear stability viscosity index
improver are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type
of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg’s own proprietary additive Penetro® ."
So OK what's in Penetro you ask ? Maybe something like LC ??
..
Teflon 9002-84-0 2-4%
Teflon in Penetro
Also known as PTFE Fluropolymer
I was hoping to find a neat chemical but not that one. The antimony add is nice but please tell me the Penetro used in combination in the add pack does not have the Teflon in it.
Quote:
Well the 7000 series uses the Penetro penetrationg fluid additve which is the same principle but wait.. I was excited thinking I would find something neat in the Penetro MSDS.... Then I read something that has me concerned... first the PDS for #701 #701 pdf "Further blended into these synthetic blend base fluids, the highly advanced
proprietary performance additive package and shear stability viscosity index
improver are two proven frictional modifiers, Micron Moly®, a liquid soluble type
of Moly and Schaeffer Mfg’s own proprietary additive Penetro® ."
So OK what's in Penetro you ask ? Maybe something like LC ??
..
Really I didn't set out to find this!!
Teflon 9002-84-0 2-4%
Teflon in Penetro
Also known as PTFE Fluropolymer
I was hoping to find a neat chemical but not that one. The antimony add is nice but please tell me the Penetro used in combination in the add pack does not have the Teflon in it.
Sounds like that soluble form of PTFE Fluropolymer that Johnny was talking about.
OK, Soluble PTFE-Vs Colloidal old fashioned slick 50 #@$%!, I just don't see the difference as presented. If it is soluble it Sounds interesting, I would like to hear more about it because of the built in distrust I have for PTFE in lubricating oils.
Here's something that looks to be related. Maybe it's used as a friction modifier?
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4349444.html
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4349444.html
Brian, PTFE's are a legitimate additive in greases, general lubricating oils & gear oils.
In factory automation applications, we have exclusively used PTFE grease in pneumatic cylinders & linear motion bearings & guides for about the last 5 years.
Most of these air cylinders & slides are designated to be lubed-for-life with a PTFE grease from the cylinder builder, since older style inline oilers can't be used as OSHA regs restrict the amount of oil mist that can be exhausted from the valve manifolds into the workplace air.
The rod & piston seals hold up well with this PTFE grease and the film has good retention qualities on guide shafts in the linear bearing applications.
The theory of the PTFE additive is that it the 5 micron or less particle size of the PTFE works it's way into pores of the metal surface & reduce friction by less metal to metal contact.
In non-engine oil applications, PTFE is a effective additive!
Yes, that seems to be the principle. Plating up with PTFE using flouride as some sort of catalyst.
That is what I am refering to all the pro's seem to say that PTFE is no good in the engine. So I am very confused. I need to see if Salesrep can get technical confirmation on this.
Yeah, it's obvious & we would have no posting activity on Bitog if everyone agreed.
Keep in mind that engine oils and general purpose and industrial/commercial lubricating oils are separate applications & the posts that shout "no, it doesn't work" are normally referring to the engine oil application.
Here's a link to the product data sheet for Cerflon, a next generation product comprised of PTFE and a boron nitride.
http://www.cerflon.com/products1.htm
Scroll on down the webpage to view the comparison testing.
Note that Cerflon scores very well in a 4-ball wear test compared to both Moly DiSulfide & Graphite.
And, as you can see in this Link , it is used in a commercially available product.
http://www.cerflon.com/products1.htm
Scroll on down the webpage to view the comparison testing.
Note that Cerflon scores very well in a 4-ball wear test compared to both Moly DiSulfide & Graphite.
And, as you can see in this Link , it is used in a commercially available product.
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