Alkylated Napthalene benefits

[JAG]

Thanks for the post Terry. 427Z06 doesn't bother me one bit. I consider him almost like an online brother and value his opinion and he knows that.

Below is one of the threads I was alluding to. The last post is specifically the opinions that I said don't seem to match the test results in the first link in this thread. Not mentioned is the TAN rise that can occur with esters, the oxidative and thermal stability of AN vs esters, nor is the effect on anti-wear properties. I'm not concerned about hydrolytic stability of motor oils so I'm willing to ignore that aspect of esters. I'll let others judge for themselves and would value your opinion on this as well.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...ge=0#Post721441

 

[buster]

Terry, I'm not the only one on here that thinks LC doesn't do anything. I don't have the background you do, or the data to prove it one way or the other so I have to take your word for it. I respect your independence to brand loyalty and honesty. My issue isn't even entirely with LC. I think it encourages people to mix many of these bogus additives into well formulated products that do more harm then good. If anything they are a waste of time and money. IMHO. Oh and yes, Molekule knows his stuff no doubt about it. He's discussed AN's in length before.

No one thinks M1 is the best oil, but it's still good for many applications. Has XOM been shaddy about the Group III issue? Yes.

I don't buy into all marketing. I'm the one that has blasted Amsoil for years about some of the claims they make like the 4-Ball wear test. It would be nice if XOM were more forthcoming about the Group III, but they aren't.

If you want to talk about value, your conventional SM oils are hard to beat. Extended drains though would have to favor Amsoil and Mobil 1 still IMHO.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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427Z06 doesn't bother me one bit. I consider him almost like an online brother and value his opinion and he knows that.

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Thank you. I hope you know the feelings are mutual.

P.S. buster, caught outside of EOM offices with his boombox.

 

[JAG]

Haha! That pic is hilarious!

 

[buster]

That was good.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I miss Molakule's technical articles and input. I do hope his business move is going well and that someday soon he can take time to answer some of these very good questions.

JAG after Re-reading that Thread it seems I am wrong and AN's do not provide a cost advantage as "I ASSUMED". So perhaps there is a formulation challenge.

I do put alot of value in Terry's words however. Blind faith it may be but he has never displayed anything other than professionalism and competency in his business. When he states that Item "A" produces less than average results I tend to believe him.

 

[Terry]

Buster, I have shown and see beneficial effects of LC and FP all the time based on real world UOA. As a matter of fact we may have stumbled upon a MAJOR breakthrough using FP for DI engines and fuel dilution for a car makers high HP DI gas engines. I would not recommend the chemistry to be used if it did not benefit. If I have a customer who does not need a specific recommendation I do not make it.

It really doesn't change the capability or effectiveness of LC if you or a even a majority of BITOG people disagree. Unless they knew the chemistry they cannot accurately theorize what it can or cannot do. Since that cannot be disclosed you will have to be happy with real world testing results. Problem is guys like you post alot here and people tend to believe what they see the most of, even if it is inaccurate. So you have a responsibility to make it clear that your opinions are based on only that opinion.

Great pix 427 !

JAG, are you a formulating chemist? You would have to be to argue with Mola on this issue. I am not a chemist so I can only tell you what I see in collaborative testing working with chemists on formulating work. There are literally hundreds of ester combinations that may be used with lubricty enhancing characteristics and I "think" Mola was saying in formulating work he could get a better bang for the buck with other than XOM sourced AN.

I take him at his word having observed and tested many of his experimental and production formulas on a proprietary basis. He has always been ON, he doesn't have enough money to make too many mistakes like the larger add corporations can!

Cheers , Terry

 

[buster]

As you said Terry, we have to take your word on this and let the used oil analysis speak for themselves. I stand by what I said in that LC is a waste of time and money. That is just my opinion. If I saw more used oil analysis that showed the benefits, I'd be all for it. While I don't think of LC as a "snake oil" type product, 99% of them sold at the retail level are very questionable and sold by people like the guy below, which makes me very skeptical of any additive. ps. You and 427 should get a room.

 

[Terry]

The "room" comment was out of place and indicative of where we are headed at this site unless we get some major correction.

Shame.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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The "room" comment was out of place and indicative of where we are headed at this site unless we get some major correction.

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The "correction" comes when folks like you and Molakule post on here with level-headed science and facts to counterbalance the "opinion" that sometimes runs rampant.

I hope you will remain committed to BITOG and continue to post, not in spite of the erroneous information you sometimes see here, but precisely because of it.

Food for thought.

 

[JAG]

Here is Mobil's 1997 patent on use of AN paired with PAO. Interesting data but horribly formatted (at least on my screen):
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5602086-description.html

 

[Terry]

Thanks JAG, Note too that XOM is not the only source for AN.

G-MAN rest assured I have not, " left the building", although some of my more scholarly colleagues have. I do pray for more tech professionals to chime in. Civility, honest discourse, and respect made this site great.

I am just overloaded busy. I respect Bob Winters, and Tony too much to blast that easy. I worked all week and now in Santiago,Chile on business so I am doing my physical best to assist raising the noise level.

Buster, you do not have to take my word, but you do have to understand oil analysis interpretation and sadly I can only share so much of what I know because lots of what I know is OWNED.

Why don't you hammer on LCD to disclose more of WHAT LC/FP is within reasonable limits ? If you had studied what I have you would choke on your attitude about it. And I mean that very sincerely. It is an amazing technology and has been for 60+ years. Study the ad from the late fifties to early sixties that LCD posted here closely!

TD

 

[buster]

Thanks JAG. Good info.

 

[Terry]

" I miss Molakule's technical articles and input."

Me too, I Pray all is well with him and family.

 

[JAG]

Terry, do you know if Pennzoil Platinum is using any fluids other than Group 3 such as esters or AN? I know you probably can't answer that if you do know but I thought it's worth a shot. Thanks in advance.

 

[Terry]

Yes

 

[JAG]

Good to know! Thanks Terry. BTW, no I'm not a formulating chemist.

 

[Terry]

Me either.

 

[TeeDub]

All of this is purely conjecture unless you have the equipment necessary to break down these fluids to their component parts. Even then so much of lubricant formulation is a black art, where you start with a known quality and then deviate slightly from that baseline.

I'd say the regular Mobil 1 is roughly comparable to the PP and perhaps the regular Castrol Syntec. I'd give the nod to the GC, 0w30 over the Mobil 1, EP in most respects. When the EP first came out in it's SL form (with a robust add pack), I would have said the EP lasted longer in service than anything else on the shelf. But in it's watered down, SM version, I'm not even sure that's still true.

The price of raw materials (basestocks,additives, #2 plastic bottles) has really gone way up, not to mention diesel fuel (shipping costs). A top tier, PAO/Ester based synthetic with a robust add pack (like Delvac 1 or Amsoil for example) now starts @ $7.00/qt on up....

 

[buster]

I agree with TeeDub.

LC = WASTE.

The "150,000 mile +" thread should really put all of this in perspective.