Mobil 1 - ESTERS

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I emailed Mobil on whether or not they used esters. I know their tech staff isn't always great, depending on who you talk to but this is what they said. I brought up Redline as well. Couldn't resist.
quote:
Mobil1 motor oils utilize synthetic basestocks; along with PAO's, synthetic esters, and alkylated napthalenes. Mobil feels like you must have a chemical balance of basestocks and additives to have the most superior product. Redline is a very good product; however nothing outperforms Mobil1 motor oils.
 
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This looks to me like their canned response for the old Tri-Syn forumula. In fact, if you go to the current Mobil 1 web site, you'll still find "Tri-Syn" mentioned at places rather than SuperSyn.
 

buster

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I think your right. I was thinking the same thing. Most likely Mobil tech department isn't going to know what makes up M1.
 

Jay

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I disagree. And I know it has been said that Mobil1 will never reveal their basestock formulation, but declining to reveal the formulation and saying it is something it's not are two different things. The former is OK. The latter is dishonest and illegal.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay: I disagree. And I know it has been said that Mobil1 will never reveal their basestock formulation, but declining to reveal the formulation and saying it is something it's not are two different things. The former is OK. The latter is dishonest and illegal.
It's not dishonest if the talking heads in the customer tech dept are just repeating an oudated script they were given back when Tri-Syn was being made.
 
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Anybody remember the Sanford and Son episode which dealt with making synthetic oil from dead ants?...you know Ant Esters (see there was this lady on the show named Aunt Esther and ...oh never mind)
 
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Where else in TVland would you get a discussion on motor oil but Sanford and Son--great program! I can just imagine what they wanted to do with Aunt Esther. But Fred probably figures she'd ruin their engine. [Big Grin] Anyway, comparisons between Mobil 1 and Redline are very interesting. Look at what it says in the FAQ's at the Mobil1.com site: "Q: Red Line Oil claims to have 100 percent polyolester base stocks. Are these different or better than the base stocks used in Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™? A: We are very familiar with polyolesters. In fact, we manufacture them and use them in our aviation jet engine oils such as Mobil Jet Oil II® and Mobil Jet Oil 254® and in our refrigeration compressor lubricants, where the polyolesters are utilized for their compatibility with new HFC refrigerants. Polyolesters are indeed excellent at high-temperature oxidation stability and low volatility. However, our work on automobile engines and jet engine designs has shown that polyalphaolefins (PAOs) offer the best all-around performance for gasoline engines due to their: Being completely compatible with conventional oils and gasoline engine seals. Providing both low- and high-temperature performance. Providing a stable oil in the presence of water and moisture. Having anti-rust capabilities." Now, I'd love to see Redline's response. BTW, I run redline ATF in my manual tranny and Mobil 1 ATF in my automatics.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul: Now, I'd love to see Redline's response.
I think all Redline would say is "Our record speaks for itself." The fact that Mobil mentions Redline by name on their web site is telling. You don't see them talking about Amsoil. [Big Grin]
 
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According to magazine ads for Mobil 1 here in Australia, Exxon Mobil has 20 patents on their "Super Syn" technology. Do they advertise that fact in North America ?
 
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Aren't the esters the ingredient that allows synthetic oil to "cling" onto the moving parts of an engine, thus prohibits start-up wear? In moving from TriSyn to SuperSyn, I wonder if Mobil 1 has lost this edge in using only PAOs.
 

pmt

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quote:
Originally posted by saigonsmuggler: Aren't the esters the ingredient that allows synthetic oil to "cling" onto the moving parts of an engine, thus prohibits start-up wear?
I've never been clear on this myself. Esters cling to the engine parts upon shutdown, which is good. But esters readily absorb water, which is bad - especially if the oil film becomes saturated. So are esters in an oil a good thing if the engine sits all winter in Minnesota - like my T-Bird? Thanks for any expert input. [Big Grin]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by saigonsmuggler: In moving from TriSyn to SuperSyn, I wonder if Mobil 1 has lost this edge in using only PAOs.
Judging from the UOAs, the answer is a big NO. SuperSyn consistently posts better UOAs than did Tri-Syn.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by pmt: But esters readily absorb water, which is bad -
It would be bad if it were true. Molakule has posted about this before. Synthetic esters used in modern engine oils don't have hydroscopic issues.
 
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"Red Line Oil claims to have 100 percent polyolester base stocks. Are these different or better than the base stocks used in Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™? A: We are very familiar with polyolesters. In fact, we manufacture them and use them in our aviation jet engine oils such as Mobil Jet Oil II® and Mobil Jet Oil 254® and in our refrigeration compressor lubricants, where the polyolesters are utilized for their compatibility with new HFC refrigerants. Polyolesters are indeed excellent at high-temperature oxidation stability and low volatility. However, our work on automobile engines and jet engine designs has shown that polyalphaolefins (PAOs) offer the best all-around performance for gasoline engines due to their: Being completely compatible with conventional oils and gasoline engine seals. Providing both low- and high-temperature performance. Providing a stable oil in the presence of water and moisture. Having anti-rust capabilities." They left out the primary reason for using PAO bases is that they are cheaper for XOM to produce a PROFIT. PERIOD.
 

MolaKule

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The Tri-Synthetic formula used a mix of various PAO viscosites, Alkylated Naphthalenes, and Coconut oil esters; hence the name TriSyn. That is, they used two Group V oils and one group IV. IHMO, had the oil been properly formulated, and the Alkylated Naphthalenes been taken out, we would still be using TriSyn instead of having to invent a new name like SuperSyn for marketing purposes. BTW, PAO's cost 3.25 X Mineral oils, and automotive quality esters cost 5.5 X mineral oils.
 

buster

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Terry/Molekule, you both know all about this, but when looking at any good synthetic, don't you wan't a mix of PAO + POE, which is what M1/Amsoil/Synergyn all are? Redline claims their oils are JUST POE, but thats not desirable either is it? Cost I'm sure is an issue but I thought using an all POE was bad? Plus, why would Mobil be cutting race teams short by selling them PAO/POE based oils instead of fully ester based oils like RL when XOM makes POEs? [I dont know] And then you have Shell who claims their F1 oils are PAO/Grp III blends! I guess Walmart is too big to pass up. [Cool] From Redline's webpage:
quote:
It’s not designed to be the cheapest—it’s built to be the best. Rather than cutting costs by blending into polyalphaolefin base stock for its motor oil, Red Line Oil only uses superior poly ester-based products—resulting in lubricants that are extremely stable at high temperatures while providing superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.
[ June 22, 2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 

MolaKule

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I never knew Redline claimed an all POE base stock. Here is a direct quote from their "Redline High Performance Motor Oil" page:
quote:
At Red Line, we use the most stable synthetic lubricant base stocks available and formulate our products for wear protection and friction reduction across a wide range of engine operating conditions. Red Line lubricants are unique because they contain polyester base stocks, the only lubricant base stock type that withstands the incredible heat present in the hot sections of jet engines.
So their base stocks have a major percentage of PAO's with a minority percentage of esters, but the ester percentage is higher than any other oil available in the current market.
 
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Buster, Mola is right, RL uses more POE than other easily available lubes. That could change soon as I know of a oil company about to custom formulate selling online direct to the customer ! Could be BITOG participants dream ! More later....
 

buster

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quote:
Buster, Mola is right, RL uses more POE than other easily available lubes
Thats what I thought bc I've read what Mola wrote before and then Redline revamped their webpage and it now says what I quoted above on the front page. And I've always thought oils like S2000/RL etc. have more ester content in them, making them superior or more stable oils in high temp. situations. But then I found that S2k/M1 are mostly PAO with about 15% POE as stated on BITOG. It was always understood that RL was something like 65% PAO and 25% Ester. [I dont know]
 
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There once was a Castrol CEO Whose life was full of pain and woe It got so bad he was losing his hair At about the same rate as market share He spoke with the board He talked to the Lord But try as he might Still the market took flight But then came the light That grounded the flight He's now a hit with investors Because of Gummi Bear esters! ....sweeeet [ June 22, 2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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