[quote That may be the bottom line for some, but if we look a bit closer we see that, although the JASO standards can provide a cluless individual with an easy choice of oil that is marketed towards his application, it is far from a standard that guarantees superior performance.
In fact, I find the JASO standards to be far less stringent than those of API SM or GF-4.
JASO MA is only a guarantee that an oil is of a SG(obsolete API standard) certifiable oil that passes a very few meager performance benchmarks, and that the fluid falls within certain frictional ranges. That's it.
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV0604.pdf
API SM oil see's a few more performance requirements than the JASO certification does.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/Technical Bulletin 3.PDF
And ILSAC GF-4 oils pass even more performance requirements.
http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/Technical Bulletin 2.PDF
Yes, JASO standards requires the oil to be within certain frictional limits when used with a wet clutch, but just because an oil has not submitted to JASO for a motorcycle specific certification, it doesn't mean that the fluid won't easily fall into a catagory deemed suitible for a wet clutch by JASO.
It is easy to find many oils on the auot parts shelf that are far more robust than what the JASO standards call for. And most of those oils cost far less than any JASO certified oil marketed to motorcycles.
And forums like these make it easy to find anecdotal evidence of these products functioning quite well in a wet clutch situation, and even better in many cases, than many of the JASO moto niche fluids.
The case that JASO certified oils are simply the best choice to make for motorcycle use just doesn't pan out.
Adequate oils?...sure, they are adequate. But they are not guaranteed to be superior performing fluids, by any stretch.
Tim,
Have you ever even been to a national MX or GNCC, let alone in the pits?
I firmly believe that a motorcycle...ANY motorcycle needs to have it's lubricating fluid changed out on a very frequent basis. Not only because the fluid gets worn out much faster than in other type applications, but also because a wet clutch creates a lot of contamination very quickly. I think that we may find concensus on this issue with the more versed tuners and mechanics.
And if we subscribe to changing out our fluids using regular short OCI's, give me the reason that I must use a synthetic fluid. Just what exactly would a higher cost synthetic fluid do for me? Can you show me anything, past perhaps the ability to extend the OCI a bit, that says I can benefit from using a synthetic fluid...(whatever that may mean)?
I am curious though...
Does it read like this?;
SALES RULE #762
"When all else fails, and you don't have them yet...play the sponsorship card! Many will fall for that, when sales rules #1-#761 aren't working.
Please show me where a motorcycle manufacturer or oil company recommends non JASO MA API SM for wet clutch/engine/transmission motorcycles. If they don't, then you better enlighten their engineers as to why. API SG is only obsolete for automobiles, it is still a preferred formulation for motorcycles. I'd like to see you make a warranty claim when you've used non-JASO MA, API SM, incorrect viscosity car oil in a bike that lists JASO MA, non API SM and recommended viscosities.
Yes, I've been to national MX events. They are in the Houston area frequently. Amsoil selected me to represent them at the Loretta Lynn national MX meet just 2 weeks ago.
Yes, I've been to the pit areas. I was even a pit crew member for a Suzuki SV650 motorcycle endurance team last year. We never changed out Amsoil for a day of practice followed by a day of 8 hour endurance racing. Most every other team we saw changed their oils as often as they could. Try that with API SM non JASO MA petroleum car oil sometime.
Why use synthetic oil? I get an extra 6,000 miles between engine oil changes and 12,000 extra miles between transmission and final drive changes with a free parts and labor warranty should the oil ever fail on my 137,000 mile K1200LT motorcycle. You think a car petroleum oil will do that including the warranty?
