2022-2023 Toyota Tundra Recall - 98,600 vehicles for engine stall/failure issue

[PWMDMD]

That's a laughable argument. Automakers would still try to make the best car possible, and if the consumer wants seatbelts and fuel injection, then they are going to make it. Do you realize you can actually still buy a horse and buggy? Do you own one? Why not? Maybe you want something more modern, with an engine and seatbelts and fuel injection? Regulations have nothing to do with the horse and buggy not being widely used today.

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

 

[02SE]

There is a new diesel version of the Tundra, it should be super durable. I like how it sounds

Ehh, my Cummins sounds more refined...

 

[JeffKeryk]

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

When GM points were replaced with the big cap HEI, people swore they would rip that stupid distributor out and put their beloved points back in.

 

[CKN]

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

Of course not. Nobody wanted a close looped system that was far more precise and reliable than a 4 barrel carburetor-with a spring choke.
Carburetors either worked or your vehicle ran like a lumber truck.
It's the kicking and screaming mentality prevalent on this forum..

 

[KrisZ]

Of course not. Nobody wanted a close looped system that was far more precise and reliable than a 4 barrel carburetor-with a spring choke.
Carburetors either worked or your vehicle ran like a lumber truck.
It's the kicking and screaming mentality prevalent on this forum..

Not exactly, we didn’t jump from carburetors to closed loop modern FI systems and people were simply rejecting them on the basis of being being new.
The first FI implementations were very rudimentary single point contraptions with tons of vacuum lines and questionable electronics. Nobody knew how to fix and troubleshoot these. The reservations were very much warranted.

Looking back is easy to criticize.

 

[The Lube Guy]

There is a new diesel version of the Tundra, it should be super durable. I like how it sounds

A Rod Knock may be Invisible, but it sure isn't Inaudible.

Edit:

I'm going to use this Toyota engine noise as the new notification sound on my phone. I bet it'll turn some heads.

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

It depends on the business. The Tucker Torpedo came out with seatbelts and fuel injection along with other innovations in the 1940s prior to the regulations.

 

[PWMDMD]

It depends on the business. The Tucker Torpedo came out with seatbelts and fuel injection along with other innovations in the 1940s prior to the regulations.

These amazing technologies then conveniently “disappeared” for 30 years and they didn’t become widespread until they were mandated by regulation or had to be implemented to indirectly meet regulations. Seatbelts didn’t become a requirement in new cars in the US until a 1968 federal law was passed (and then there was no law they had to be used and this certainly was not due to customer demand) and fuel injection didn’t become widely adopted until the 1980-90s to meet US/California emissions. California in 1988 mandated emissions monitoring for passenger vehicles.

Thank you for proving my point completely!

 

[Exhaustgases]

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

True in a sense.
Some times its well deserved too, since some folks don't have the where with all or common sense.
I relate it mostly to smoking bans in public places, too many give a crap folks thinking everyone else liked smelling it, and especially at restaurants.

 

[PWMDMD]

True in a sense.
Some times its well deserved too, since some folks don't have the where with all or common sense.
I relate it mostly to smoking bans in public places, too many give a crap folks thinking everyone else liked smelling it, and especially at restaurants.

I don't see how this fits the discussion here. My comment isn't about regulation in general, it's about regulation as a driver for business innovation, not public health policy.

 

[Exhaustgases]

This is a video showing the process of assembling these turbo charged V6 engines for the Tundra. I can't see a hint of neglect or lack of professionalism. I see exactly the opposite of that. I see a high tech plant with people carefully doing extra steps during the assembly process to ensure those engines are built right:



Just based on the above video alone, I'd buy a Tundra with one of these in it.

And here is how messy the repair process of one of these engines is:



I think that one of the big problems of this engine is 0W-20, combined with how people use their vehicles and how often they change their oil. More than likely, Toyota needs to reconsider their love affair with low viscosity motor oil.

Short tripping and 10K mile OCIs are a terrible combination. Fuel dilution and water will kill the bottom end bearings long before that engine will see even a hint of sludge precursors. The process is accelerated by this being a forced-induction engine.

In Hyundai's case, the Theta II engine failures were the consequence of a string of very bad decisions on Hyundai's part, and a lack of communicating information to customers. By the time Hyundai woke up, it was already too late. I'll leave the details that I know for another post, another time. Suffice to say that those engines grenaded themselves in a similar manner as Toyota's, or worse. And it wasn't the imaginary machining debris that messed up those Theta II engines, it was the rod bearings giving up the ghost. Sometimes it was a rod knock, sometimes it was a rod leaving its home through the side of the block.

And in a production atmosphere certain things will not be allowed, since you just pick the part and install it. I see many things in that first video that I would be doing much different. Can not blame the workers they have no choices.

 

[edyvw]

These amazing technologies then conveniently “disappeared” for 30 years and they didn’t become widespread until they were mandated by regulation or had to be implemented to indirectly meet regulations. Seatbelts didn’t become a requirement in new cars in the US until a 1968 federal law was passed (and then there was no law they had to be used and this certainly was not due to customer demand) and fuel injection didn’t become widely adopted until the 1980-90s to meet US/California emissions. California in 1988 mandated emissions monitoring for passenger vehicles.

Thank you for proving my point completely!

 

[edyvw]

Mobil1 knows Euro stuffnis for these engines

 

[Exhaustgases]

Not many Tech's like this one, getting piddly warranty pay and spending time cleaning stuff.

 

[PWMDMD]

Not many Tech's like this one, getting piddly warranty pay and spending time cleaning stuff.

Timing cover leak required that amount of disassembly?

 

[The Lube Guy]

Not many Tech's like this one, getting piddly warranty pay and spending time cleaning stuff.

I just fell in love with those lifts. I really need one of those in my life, would make working on my vehicles so much easier.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Mobil1 knows Euro stuffnis for these engines

View attachment 223146

If I bought one of these Tundras, I would run an Euro oil that ends in 40, for sure.

 

[Cujet]

If I bought one of these Tundras, I would run an Euro oil that ends in 40, for sure.

I kind of think the oil pump would reduce pressure to 4 PSI at low loads (or some other nonsense low number) and the same problem would result. I don't know for sure this engine has variable oil pressure, but that is now "normal" for Toyota.

 

[RAVL]

You give "business" too much credit and you give what consumers want too much credit too. The past 100 years of our history are full of case after case of businesses doing the bare minimum because it tends to be the cheapest option that maximizes profit and this has been to consumers' detriment. Consumers didn't ask for seatbelts, they denounced them as another sign of government overreach. Consumers didn't ask for fuel injection either. Many times consumers have no idea what they are missing until regulation forces an industry to develop an innovative solution to a regulatory problem.

Respectfully disagree in large measure.

The European manufacturers, mainly MB, BMW, Porsche, and Volvo, due to their experience in racing, and as part of the corporate decision to simply build safer cars, started innovating around safety and engineering (crumple zones, fuel injection, four wheel disc brakes, three point belts, etc.) advancements that the public in Europe and the U.S. saw, and liked. Regulators caught on that these were legitimate safety and engineering advances, and picked up the baton to pass them down to the rest of the market. But I am old enough to remember that people were asking why the neighbor’s 240 Volvo had three point belts and big head rests all around, and the Chevy or Ford family haulers did not. And it was at that point that the market started to change , and the insurers caught on that a BMW or Benz, while more expensive to fix, were a hell of a lot safer per miles driven. And that is when we saw the American and Japanese manufacturers start to pay some degree of attention to safety. And yes the regulators helped push it along. But it was racing and the general excellence of the engineering culture at these Euro manufacturers that really educated the public. The regulation followed.

Now we have it in reverse. To take one example, the Euro manufacturers come up with a relatively clean diesel technology and the regulators make it impossible to sell. Everyone instead is mandated to go electric, which simply shifts the environmental burden from the drive cycle to the
manufacturing cycle. And no one is being honest or realistic about the grid improvements or base power improvements that will be needed to plug all the cars in at night. If you believe in climate change and don’t want nuclear then you aren’t a serious person on the issue from a policy perspective because renewables won’t do it alone, particularly if you force up in time that time when the market will be mostly electric.

I don’t think regulation is pointless. Far from it as there are many examples where it is needed. But safety with cars is not a good one. That train had already left the station and was well down the tracks, led by a relatively small number of Euro makers who had a strong engineering and safety culture.

 

[john_pifer]

She didn’t know how prescient her last comment actually was.