Toyota Apologizes for Cheating on Vehicle Testing

[Pablo]

Exactly. My point is if they'd lighten up it would yield a better more efficient product, and cheating wouldn't be the issue. imo.

And what I said

 

[Zee09]

Whispers from the VW bashers here

 

[02SE]

It could be a number of things, and I'm sure Toyota already knows. Things like bad engineering, quality of the materials, questionable manufacturing process (they use cast iron inserts in the aluminum lather frame at the bottom of the engine), etc.

Please explain "Aluminum lather frame". Is someone lathering up their hands in the crankcase?

Right now, I suspect you don't know what you're talking about. But you are drawing conclusions anyway.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Please explain "Aluminum lather frame". Is someone lathering up their hands in the crankcase?

Take a look at the main bearing cap design.

Right now, I suspect you don't know what you're talking about. But you are drawing conclusions anyway.

It seems to me like you know more than I do, so please feel free to share and correct me. Thank you.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Whispers from the VW bashers here

If the linked article is to be believed "a Toyota executive overseeing customer satisfaction, said Toyota began looking into its own tests following the problems at the group companies."

Vs the VW story being "we wrote a software cheat to detect the Cafe test and detune the vehicle to pass while being tested, and unfortunately got caught by some PHD students in WV"

Again, based purely on what was written, seems a lot different IMHO.

I suppose we will find out more at some point?

 

[edyvw]

Exactly. My point is if they'd lighten up it would yield a better more efficient product, and cheating wouldn't be the issue. imo.

Others apparently don;t have issues with crash tests etc. It seems like culture of cheating because it is not just emission testing.
And I really want to see a company that says: oh, standards are lower; let's invest more money into something that customer has no idea about.

 

[edyvw]

If the linked article is to be believed "a Toyota executive overseeing customer satisfaction, said Toyota began looking into its own tests following the problems at the group companies."

Vs the VW story being "we wrote a software cheat to detect the Cafe test and detune the vehicle to pass while being tested, and unfortunately got caught by some PHD students in WV"

Again, based purely on what was written, seems a lot different IMHO.

I suppose we will find out more at some point?

The article reads that they cheated in multiple differents tests. That smells like an organizational culture issue.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Others apparently don;t have issues with crash tests etc. It seems like culture of cheating because it is not just emission testing.
And I really want to see a company that says: oh, standards are lower; let's invest more money into something that customer has no idea about.

The article reads that they cheated in multiple differents tests. That smells like an organizational culture issue.

That's why I brought up the Toyota Tundra V6 engine failure issue. Toyota claimed they fixed it in the 2024 model year by making some changes to the bottom of the engine, however, we're still seeing 2024 engines failing, and failing early in their life. I can only imagine that for Toyota to get out of this, they will redesign the engine block.

 

[Pablo]

The article is actually quite lacking in detail. Not technical at all.

Do corporate cultures lead to cheating?

Some do.

Breakthrough!

 

[Pablo]

That's why I brought up the Toyota Tundra V6 engine failure issue. Toyota claimed they fixed it in the 2024 model year by making some changes to the bottom of the engine, however, we're still seeing 2024 engines failing, and failing early in their life. I can only imagine that for Toyota to get out of this, they will redesign the engine block.

So they cheated and it caused the failure?

 

[SC Maintenance]

The article reads that they cheated in multiple differents tests. That smells like an organizational culture issue.

Could be. Based only on the line quoted - the article says they started investigating it themselves a while back.

There can be a couple reasons for organizational culture issues. One is top down. Another is setting too high a bar where middle managers cheat on their own. I have seen the latter many times. Often leads to promotion, leaving the next guy to clean up the mess. Obviously these are very general statements, not related to any data from this story since we seem to have no data.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Oh please what?

You're accusing Toyota employees of purposely cutting corners with that particular Toyota engine. You're assuming, you don't know anything.

 

[02SE]

Take a look at the main bearing cap design.


It seems to me like you know more than I do, so please feel free to share and correct me. Thank you.

I saw diagrams of the engine when it was first put into production.

So you can't explain what you meant by your statement I quoted. Clearly you don't know what you're talking about, but still feel qualified to draw conclusions.

I'll wait to see if Toyota's explanation of the issue proves accurate, and fixes the issue moving forward.

 

[edyvw]

Could be. Based only on the line quoted - the article says they started investigating it themselves a while back.

There can be a couple reasons for organizational culture issues. One is top down. Another is setting too high a bar where middle managers cheat on their own. I have seen the latter many times. Often leads to promotion, leaving the next guy to clean up the mess. Obviously these are very general statements, not related to any data from this story since we seem to have no data.

Agree.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about

Then feel free to point out where I'm wrong instead of dropping hints and saying that I don't know what I'm talking about. That would be the right thing to do.

I'll wait to see if Toyota's explanation of the issue proves accurate, and fixes the issue moving forward.

Toyota said that the engine problems are due to debris left during the manufacturing process. Toyota has not, as of yet, changed that explanation, and the recall they issued does not include 2024 model year vehicles, even though those have experienced early engine failures as well. I don't think we will get a second explanation out of Toyota.

 

[John105]

Perhaps their best engineers and testing funds are being refocused onto electric vehicles....an internal 'brain drain'.

I love the Lexus story and know it. It was a different time. Imagine being accused by BMW of selling the product below cost in 1989. That’s pretty flattering. To keep that up for 35 years is unlikely. Kinda like how they say successful family businesses are usually run into the ground by gen 3.

 

[Rmay635703]

Story reads like they all do it

Is there a direct link to the Tundra in question?

Toyotas Turbo V6 engines blow up having bad crank bearings.

So I suppose that might matter

 

[Jkry]

At least to me, it looks like Toyota is moving away from producing high-quality and reliable vehicles. I'm sure that the apology from CEO Koji Sato will make all the difference for those who spent their hard-earned money on a Toyota Tundra pickup truck with the new twin-turbocharged V6. That is an engine design that others have mastered a long time ago. Like many others here, I have looked at the new Toyota Tundra and considered paying a premium over competing models to get the legendary Toyota reliability, even if I find the new Tundra ugly and otherwise unappealing. Sometimes I think that Toyota rehired the Saab engineers that GM let go right before they bankrupted the company. Those are one of the few groups of engineers who could take something simple and completely re-engineer it, quadrupling the cost. Or worse, they refused to use something readily available like a GM infotainment system with built-in navigation and instead re-engineered their own from scratch. Ironically, all that re-engineering made those Saab vehicles the opposite of better. How does this apply to Toyota? Well, instead of taking a good look at readily available turbocharged V6 engines or even enlisting BMW's help, as they did with the new Supra, Toyota decided to cut costs and corners with their new V6 engine, and now faithful customers are paying for it.

For those of you who don't want to read the entire article, I have sumarized it:

Toyota recently faced scrutiny for flawed testing procedures at one of its group companies, Toyota Industries Corp., which manufactures diesel engines. This incident is part of a series of similar issues within Toyota's affiliated companies in recent years.

CEO Koji Sato publicly apologized to customers, suppliers, and dealers, acknowledging the failure in maintaining proper oversight and communication regarding the certification testing processes. The flawed testing involved falsifying results required for Japanese government approvals, affecting thousands of vehicles globally, including popular models like the Land Cruiser and Hilux.

Toyota has halted production of affected models until proper testing can be completed, although existing owners can continue using their vehicles. This scandal follows earlier issues at Daihatsu Motor Corp. and Hino Motors, both of which are part of the Toyota group, where similar cheating practices were discovered.

Sato emphasized the need for improved communication and a better understanding of the importance of compliance among all levels of management and staff to prevent such incidents in the future

Source: Yahoo! - Toyota apologizes for cheating on vehicle testing

Thank you for posting a summary, quoting the core content and providing a link to the full article. Good OP

 

[KrisZ]

Profits above everything else, or in other words the sky is blue. Of course the loyalists will have trouble accepting this reality.

 

[Plawan]

If the linked article is to be believed "a Toyota executive overseeing customer satisfaction, said Toyota began looking into its own tests following the problems at the group companies."

Vs the VW story being "we wrote a software cheat to detect the Cafe test and detune the vehicle to pass while being tested, and unfortunately got caught by some PHD students in WV"

Again, based purely on what was written, seems a lot different IMHO.

I suppose we will find out more at some point?

Hard to believe Toyota or any company would go tell on them selves.