Ouch! Toyota recalling 1.8M vehicles for faulty fuel pumps

[PowerSurge]

^^^^. What's funny in all this is that the frames were supplied by Dana, which is a big supplier to FCA. In fact, Dana had to pay Toyota millions due to inadequate rustproofing over the frame rust issues. The frames weren't rustproofed to Toyota's specifications. https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-frame-settlement-could-cost-company-34-billion https://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/18/report-dana-coughs-up-25m-to-toyota-over-rusty-tacoma-frames/

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

^^^^. What's funny in all this is that the frames were supplied by Dana, which is a big supplier to FCA. In fact, Dana had to pay Toyota millions due to inadequate rustproofing over the frame rust issues. https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-frame-settlement-could-cost-company-34-billion

Yup, Dana is a huge axle supplier to FCA and other marques, and is also the frame supplier for Ford. Dana is a big name in the biz. While Dana was obviously found culpable for inadequate corrosion protection, I think some of the onus is on Toyota for insufficient QC and thus not catching it, which is what lead to the CAL.

 

[wag123]

Back on topic. Denso manufactures Toyota's fuel pumps. They also supply fuel pumps to virtually all of the other auto manufacturers. I wonder if you will see any of the other manufacturers do a recall? My guess is NO. The other manufacturers will just replace the fuel pumps that fail while the vehicle is still in warranty and make their customers pay to have the failed fuel pumps replaced after the warranty expires, in other words, status quo. Fuel pump failures are not all that uncommon.

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by wag123

Back on topic. Denso manufactures Toyota's fuel pumps. They also supply fuel pumps to virtually all of the other auto manufacturers. I wonder if you will see any of the other manufacturers do a recall? My guess is NO. The other manufacturers will just replace the fuel pumps that fail while the vehicle is still in warranty and make their customers pay to have the failed fuel pumps replaced after the warranty expires, in other words, status quo. Fuel pump failures are not all that uncommon.

Sadly, this is true. I know Ford lowered the oil pressure PSI threshold at idle for the 5.4 3v engines to keep from having to do as many timing jobs under warranty. This is the kind of stuff that the big 3 do a lot of to help their warranty costs.

 

[JohnG]

Quote

Originally Posted by JohnG I will NEVER buy Toyota JUNK ever again! Hmmm ... I'll never buy Toyota ~ but surely not junk edyvw has the best description

OOOPs. Forgot the smiley face. I only owned one in my life, a 1981 Cressida. Liked it a lot. But I've also had a couple of Northstars that went over 100,000 mile (never saw a garage) so that's just me!

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

Originally Posted by wag123

Back on topic. Denso manufactures Toyota's fuel pumps. They also supply fuel pumps to virtually all of the other auto manufacturers. I wonder if you will see any of the other manufacturers do a recall? My guess is NO. The other manufacturers will just replace the fuel pumps that fail while the vehicle is still in warranty and make their customers pay to have the failed fuel pumps replaced after the warranty expires, in other words, status quo. Fuel pump failures are not all that uncommon.

Sadly, this is true. I know Ford lowered the oil pressure PSI threshold at idle for the 5.4 3v engines to keep from having to do as many timing jobs under warranty. This is the kind of stuff that the big 3 do a lot of to help their warranty costs.

Kind of like Toyota and their oil sludge creating engines.

 

[4WD]

Happen to anything else? They could not shut down. I have a 2017 & 2018 GM in the driveway now. You could put a cinder block on the throttle and I could still kill the engine or put the trans in N

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by Skippy722

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

Originally Posted by wag123

Back on topic. Denso manufactures Toyota's fuel pumps. They also supply fuel pumps to virtually all of the other auto manufacturers. I wonder if you will see any of the other manufacturers do a recall? My guess is NO. The other manufacturers will just replace the fuel pumps that fail while the vehicle is still in warranty and make their customers pay to have the failed fuel pumps replaced after the warranty expires, in other words, status quo. Fuel pump failures are not all that uncommon.

Sadly, this is true. I know Ford lowered the oil pressure PSI threshold at idle for the 5.4 3v engines to keep from having to do as many timing jobs under warranty. This is the kind of stuff that the big 3 do a lot of to help their warranty costs.

Kind of like Toyota and their oil sludge creating engines.

And guess who else had sludge problems at the same time? Chrysler with their 2.7 L V6's. Oil sludge was primarily caused by poor owner maintenance in both cases. Do some research.

 

[4WD]

Agree … I think sludge is rare in any engine when per spec oil is used within prescribed range …

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by 4WD

Happen to anything else? They could not shut down. I have a 2017 & 2018 GM in the driveway now. You could put a cinder block on the throttle and I could still kill the engine or put the trans in N

So could the Toyota drivers. They panicked and didn't put the vehicles in neutral. In fact tests showed that the cars would stop if the brakes were used even if the cars were at full throttle. The drivers didn't even try to switch the engine ignition off. Like I said, NASA and NHTSA investigated it.

 

[4WD]

Obviously you did not read anything Bye

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Originally Posted by supton

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

Originally Posted by Olas

Good on them for acknowledging the issue and dealing with it, I have a lot of respect for Toyotas honesty cmopared to some of the other brands we have seen that like to ignore problems or pretend they dont exist. Good work Toyota! Toyota UK had takata airbags on back-order for upto 8 months for some models - lets hope they can source replacement fuel pumps more quickly! For those that need their vehicle and cannot affod to brake down with a faulty fuel pump that cannot be replaced due to availability, the Bosch 044 pump is the correct choice for a durable, dependable replacement that is widely available at a reasonable price. Aeromotive make nice items too but can be a bit 'spendy', maybe OTT for a traffic/commuter car.

This. It's better to operate the way that Toyota does instead of waiting until the government forces you to do something. But hey, sometimes the big 3 just like to murder their customers, I guess.

I thought Toyota got forced into the issue on frame rust?

There was a class action lawsuit over the frame issue, which resulted in the recall.

Owners of Ford Ranger had no suck luck though with the POS frames broken in multiple places. Ford told their customers to go scratch their backsides with a broken bottle.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

Originally Posted by Skippy722

Originally Posted by PowerSurge

Originally Posted by wag123

Back on topic. Denso manufactures Toyota's fuel pumps. They also supply fuel pumps to virtually all of the other auto manufacturers. I wonder if you will see any of the other manufacturers do a recall? My guess is NO. The other manufacturers will just replace the fuel pumps that fail while the vehicle is still in warranty and make their customers pay to have the failed fuel pumps replaced after the warranty expires, in other words, status quo. Fuel pump failures are not all that uncommon.

Sadly, this is true. I know Ford lowered the oil pressure PSI threshold at idle for the 5.4 3v engines to keep from having to do as many timing jobs under warranty. This is the kind of stuff that the big 3 do a lot of to help their warranty costs.

Kind of like Toyota and their oil sludge creating engines.

And guess who else had sludge problems at the same time? Chrysler with their 2.7 L V6's. Oil sludge was primarily caused by poor owner maintenance in both cases. Do some research.

So did VW/audi with their 1.8 turbo and some Saab engines, small sump capacity, high revving turbo engine, cats very close to the sump and long or neglected OCI = sludge!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Trav

Owners of Ford Ranger had no suck luck though with the POS frames broken in multiple places. Ford told their customers to go scratch their backsides with a broken bottle.

Yup, though it's weird that I never saw it on the Explorer, which was so markedly similar to the Ranger Of course the Explorer had the shackles that would rot off, had that happen on my '97. Harking back to the OP, I recall the late 90's GM truck fuel pumps were notorious for pooping the bed. I know a guy that went through 3x or 4x of them and this was pretty common.

 

[Trav]

Yep, the Expedition was okay also just the Ranger, i understand it was the same frame manufacturer (Dana) for both the Toyota and the Ford. All cars and trucks have problems and may be recalled, have TSB's issued and need warranty work the only difference is how the company manages it and stands behind it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Trav

Yep, the Expedition was okay also just the Ranger, i understand it was the same frame manufacturer (Dana) for both the Toyota and the Ford. All cars and trucks have problems and may be recalled, have TSB's issued and need warranty work the only difference is how the company manages it and stands behind it.

Yes, Dana produces most, if not all of Ford's frames from what I recall. Was there ever a CAL launched against Ford for the Ranger issue? That seemed to ultimately be what lit a fire under Toyota's butt to deal with it.

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by supton

My parents had an '87 Astrovan that ate a fuel pump w/in warranty I think (back then it was what, 2yr/24k, or maybe it was 3yr/36k?). It was in short order. It then did 200k+ on the replacement pump. The wife and I routinely run down to E on our tanks. I did have one fail, but it was a VW, so does that count? To its credit, it was around 255k, and the model was known for that failure mode, so I don't think it counts. IMO the bit about "you shouldn't run to E" is model specific and may not be a problem anymore.

My parents had 2 failure prone vehicles years back (98 GMC Safari and 99 olds Alero), working in the auto industry I saw a number of those types of vehicles fail. Neither of ours did, which may have something to do with my parents not running low on fuel. The Alero gas gauge did fail and my sister ran it out of fuel once or twice before they figured it out and started using the trip meter for refueling in time. A 2002 GMC Sierra my employer had for years needed a fuel pump at 110k miles, the guy who drove it always let it run low and the gauge was looking erratic by that time. The 2005 Silverado I just bought from the boss (getting paid mileage to keep using it) only had the pump replaced because the sending unit rusted out and started leaking at 170k miles. Sometimes the replacement part quality is really sketchy and that can be a problem. I imagine Toyota has whatever issue the supplier had sorted out by now.

 

[wdn]

When your phone doesn't ring it will be the Mopar service manager not calling you to schedule a voluntary recall. FIAT does not do recalls. Tony waits until NHTSA slaps him, then does a mandatory recall with a federal court nipping at his heels.

 

[wdn]

Originally Posted by Trav

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Originally Posted by supton

I thought Toyota got forced into the issue on frame rust?

There was a class action lawsuit over the frame issue, which resulted in the recall.

Owners of Ford Ranger had no suck luck though with the POS frames broken in multiple places. Ford told their customers to go scratch their backsides with a broken bottle.

On my Expedition that I bought new in 1997 and the frame completely rusted out and failed inspection in 2010-11, Ford went one better and said we changed the frame design after the first model year, and no longer have frame parts for the 1997 to sell you at any price, to make your 12 year old Ford truck roadworthy. I got a letter from Toyota as the second owner of a 9 year old Tundra and they completely rustproofed my frame. Seven New England winters later with the truck parked outside the rust treatment is still intact. It cost me nothing.

 

[Job]

Still, the Toyota dealer in my area has expanded greatly in size with a huge fancy building, gives very little discount, and sells everything they have. I just never could figure out why they do so well.