10w30 synthetics?

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Or
What is the real-world difference in cold start between comparable 5w-30 and 10w-30s when the ambient temp is around 30F/0C? I see lots of specs on visc. at much higher and lower numbers but can't find any practical information about what it means around there, which is "winter cold" in a substantial part of the US.


Shannow posted this a while back:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3891475/Re:_For_those_that_constantly_#Post3891475

You can see that straight SAE 30, at 30F (-1C) has the oil coming out the rockers at 3 seconds and full oil pressure in 6 seconds. A 10w-30 shows the same 6 second full oil pressure at 9F (-17C) but a slightly longer 10 seconds for the rockers. A 5w-20 at a warmer 12F (-11C) shows the same 6 second full oil pressure time but a lower rocker flow time of 5 seconds, similar to the SAE 30 at 30F. This illustrates that generally, using a lubricant with the appropriate W rating for the anticipated ambient temperatures results in approximately the same amount of time required to reach full oil pressure.


I don't find this to be very useful because these temps are not really COLD.


That's cold enough for 90% of Calif... And that's ~30M people with cars.

10W-30 is nearly the ideal oil for much of the mixed fleet use in Calif. Truckee, Susanville and Mammoth could use a 0W-30 in the winter. But thousands of skiers cars start just fine on 5W and 10W, even up there ...

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: SR5


Probably lots of good 10W-30 oils out there, but Kendall interests me the most because it's the only full synthetic 10W-30 oil I can find in Australia. All the rest are semi-synthetics out this way.


Yu can get Redline in Australia, their 10w30 is very stout.


That sounds like something I would be interested in, I'll look into it. Thanks mate.


Found It !!!!

Yes RedLine 10W30 synthetic. High HTHS & Low Noack. Just what I was after.

Unfortunately it's $20- per 1 L. Not the price I was after.
I may stick with Castrol Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 or Penrite 10-Tenths Racing 5W-30.

I found this too.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1272228

 

[53' Stude]

SR5: what do you folks down there run for a synthetic in 10w30? Is Rotella synblend available there?

 

[Shannow]

car51,
there's a whole raft of "missing" grades down here, and 10W30 synthetic is one of them.

 

[alcyon]

I had the opposite happened to me with my 0W-40 and 5W-40. They thicken as they age.
Maybe caused by the high fuel sulfur. Also I don't seem to get any noticable fuel dilution in my engine.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, that's like the price for Motul 300V Ester Oil here in Calif

 

[SR5]

Hi car51,
Yes, there is no full synthetic 10W-30 down here and no Shell Rotella here either. And while we are at it, M1 0W-40 costs $100- for 5 L. All our local 10W-30 oils are mineral or semi-synthetic.

However we have a good selection of full synthetic Castrol Edge here, all high HTHS & high Zinc and high TBN stuff, all A3/B4 not ILSAC. Affordable, especially if you follow the sales.

We also have a great selection of Penrite full synthetics, including the 100% PAO & Ester 10-Tenths oils.

A vast and easy to find selection of Valvoline SynPower synthetics, and very affordable GTL Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40.

Our Castrol Magnatec 5W-30 is Full Synthetic, API SN & ACEA A3/B4.

So all up, we have ample good oils, just not as a 10W-30.

 

[53' Stude]

Thanks SR5 as I am reading up on Penrite oils

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: car51
Thanks SR5 as I am reading up on Penrite oils

Here is a link to the 2016 Penrite catalogue, it's their 90th Anniversary edition.

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/catalogue/catalogue_2016.pdf

Worth a download and a read if you are interested in Penrite. They make a very good oil.

 

[shiny]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: shiny

Thanks for the 2012 ACAE specs. What is it that you like about Kendall's full synthetic GT-1 10W-30?


Well for 10W-30 full synthetics in general you have
Originally Posted By: SR5

I like 10W-30 synthetic oils ...The advantages are it should have a low VII load and be more shear stable, plus a low noack volatility. I've seen 10W-30 synthetics with a noack of 6 to 7% and probably without using exotic GTL or PAO base stock.


This was talked about a lot on the first page.

I think Kendall is just a good example of the breed.
It has a HTHS of 3.1 a TBN of 8.0 with 850 ppm Zinc and 100 ppm Titanium.

Probably lots of good 10W-30 oils out there, but Kendall interests me the most because it's the only full synthetic 10W-30 oil I can find in Australia. All the rest are semi-synthetics out this way.


Thank you.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
HTSS_TR,
your HTHS drops about half the percentage drop of the KV100...lose 10% KV, and about 5% HTHS.

You know where I'm positioned on mixing and predicable outcomes, but I understand your objectives...maybe instead of a 0W40/0W20 combo, you could start with a 10W40 for the starting grade, and a lot less VIIs to start with.

Both oils, mixed Castrol and PP 10W30, dropped similar percentage, but wear metals were fairly low at 1 PPM per 1k mile.

The engine seems to breath easier, throttle respond seems a little faster near the end of the OCI when oil sheared down.

I need to think about this a little more, I may go straight Mobil 1(or Castrol) 0W40 or 80% 0W40 with 20% 0W20.

 

[Shannow]

Just another thought...some of the revcent blackstone analysis show marked viscosity loss (10-40%), marked flashpoint loss, but still say negligible fuel...could that be part of it ?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Just another thought...some of the revcent blackstone analysis show marked viscosity loss (10-40%), marked flashpoint loss, but still say negligible fuel...could that be part of it ?


Yes, if you are seeing a significant flashpoint reduction, there is fuel. I have zero faith in Blackstone's fuel measuring methodology.

 

[Joe90_guy]

I go to bed and this thread is bumbling along nicely. Then I wake up and there's blood everywhere!!

I guess what I've learnt today is there's no such thing as 'an indisputable fact' on BITOG...we can and will dispute pretty much anything...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Just another thought...some of the revcent blackstone analysis show marked viscosity loss (10-40%), marked flashpoint loss, but still say negligible fuel...could that be part of it ?
Yes, if you are seeing a significant flashpoint reduction, there is fuel. I have zero faith in Blackstone's fuel measuring methodology.

So my S2000 has severe fuel dilution in the oil, most likely unburnt fuel sipped through the piston ring ?

How to eliminate or at least reduce the problem with fuel dilution ?

 

[Joe90_guy]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Just another thought...some of the revcent blackstone analysis show marked viscosity loss (10-40%), marked flashpoint loss, but still say negligible fuel...could that be part of it ?
Yes, if you are seeing a significant flashpoint reduction, there is fuel. I have zero faith in Blackstone's fuel measuring methodology.

So my S2000 has severe fuel dilution in the oil, most likely unburnt fuel sipped through the piston ring ?

How to eliminate or at least reduce the problem with fuel dilution ?



Back in the day when I measured these things, I used to see bad fuel dilution of the oil I put in my little Daihatsu. As I recall, there was about 8% fuel in the oil and the KV100 of the used oil was about 5 cst (that is VERY thin!!!). The car rarely went above 60 mph (I am the world's most sedate driver). I attributed the dilution to the fact the pistons had thin, low tension rings.

The Daihatsu's engine is now knackered after 9 years. I'm not quite sure why (I gave the car away to my daughter and I can't be arsed to strip it and fix it) but I suspect it's got one or more stuck rings because it drinks oil.

I ran an oil with an 11.3% Noack. When I first blended it up, I thought this was low enough. Now I've come to realise it was way too high because of the way re-evaporating gasoline in the sump interacts with oil to 'lift' it into the intake system to be burnt.

If your S2000 is dropping fuel into the sump, there's nothing much you can do about it but you can do something about the oil. Get yourself the lowest Noack oil you can find and use that. I would look at Amsoil's all PAO 10W30 in the first instance.

 

[Shannow]

HTSS_TR,
not saying that you DO have fuel, and don't have shear, just commenting that Blackstone have been reporting minimal fuels on oils which are obviously fuel broken, or have cracked to lower viscosity.

Here's an old blast from the past, with some apparent voodoo

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/893267/1

 

[Shannow]

Found this while browsing...

Paper equivalent to BITOG by published letters

Interesting that Selby later went on to explore high shear rate viscometry and the temporary and permanent shear that took place.

Relevence ?

early 10W30s VII debate

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno

That's cold enough for 90% of Calif... And that's ~30M people with cars.

10W-30 is nearly the ideal oil for much of the mixed fleet use in Calif. Truckee, Susanville and Mammoth could use a 0W-30 in the winter. But thousands of skiers cars start just fine on 5W and 10W, even up there ...


Oh yeah, I fully accept that what I deal with parking my car outdoors overnight in the Whites is way beyond what the bulk of Americans have to consider.

I will point out that, despite abundant snowfall, the temps in Truckee/Tahoe tend to be quite a bit warmer than those in the the Whites. There is a reason why skiers talk about "Sierra Cement", that dense, wet snow that is not overly fun to ski on. It's not at all unusual for the temps I see when the lifts start spinning to still be -20F...of course, I don't park on the top of the mountain overnight, but I will still see -30F at my condo on a really bad night (not this year!!).

 

[BrocLuno]

Oh, I agree on Sierra Cement

Tahoe is mitigated by the water volume nearby and can be nice a "warm", but not so for Truckee. It regularly records the lowest temps for Calif. That's at the airport. Those living in the shadow zone see lower and longer lower temps by 10* or so. Still not the Whites though ...

Only thing I know to do with fuel dilution is to change often. No point in pricey oils if you are going to toss it at 3K ...