10w30 synthetics?
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Originally Posted By: pitzel
By definition, all 5W-30's (and 0W-30's) meet the 10W-30 "standard" and can be called 10W-30 oils for marketing purposes.
What kind of marketing purposes? A multigrade must be labelled with the lowest "W" it can achieve. If it can pass the certification for a 5W then it must be labeled as such. Same for a 0W.
By definition, all 5W-30's (and 0W-30's) meet the 10W-30 "standard" and can be called 10W-30 oils for marketing purposes.
What kind of marketing purposes? A multigrade must be labelled with the lowest "W" it can achieve. If it can pass the certification for a 5W then it must be labeled as such. Same for a 0W.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: pitzel
By definition, all 5W-30's (and 0W-30's) meet the 10W-30 "standard" and can be called 10W-30 oils for marketing purposes.
What kind of marketing purposes? A multigrade must be labelled with the lowest "W" it can achieve. If it can pass the certification for a 5W then it must be labeled as such. Same for a 0W.
I don't believe you're correct on that point. The standard for the "0W", "5W", "10W", etc. part implies a minimum standard of cold flow capability. An oil that exceeds the standard still passes the test. A 0W-30 oil is always guaranteed to be able to meet the 10W-30 specification. But a 10W-30 oil often cannot meet the 0W-30 specification.
But if a blender wanted to run one oil for their entire xW-30 lineup, and put 0W-30 in their all of their xW-30 bottles, they would not be deceiving anybody or be out of spec as far as the standards go. They would be wasting money on higher qualify blendstocks and additives, however.
Originally Posted By: pitzel
By definition, all 5W-30's (and 0W-30's) meet the 10W-30 "standard" and can be called 10W-30 oils for marketing purposes.
What kind of marketing purposes? A multigrade must be labelled with the lowest "W" it can achieve. If it can pass the certification for a 5W then it must be labeled as such. Same for a 0W.
I don't believe you're correct on that point. The standard for the "0W", "5W", "10W", etc. part implies a minimum standard of cold flow capability. An oil that exceeds the standard still passes the test. A 0W-30 oil is always guaranteed to be able to meet the 10W-30 specification. But a 10W-30 oil often cannot meet the 0W-30 specification.
But if a blender wanted to run one oil for their entire xW-30 lineup, and put 0W-30 in their all of their xW-30 bottles, they would not be deceiving anybody or be out of spec as far as the standards go. They would be wasting money on higher qualify blendstocks and additives, however.
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No, per J300:
Quote:
Most oils will meet the viscosity requirements of at least one of the W grades. Nevertheless, consistent with historic practice, any Newtonian oil may be labeled as a single-grade oil (either with or without a W). Oils which are formulated with polymeric viscosity index improvers for the purpose of making them multiviscosity-grade products are non-Newtonian and must be labeled with the appropriate multiviscosity grade (both W and high-temperature grade). Since each W grade is defined on the basis of maximum cranking and pumping viscosities as well as minimum kinematic viscosities at 100 °C, it is possible for an oil to satisfy the requirements of more than one W grade. In labeling either a W grade or a multiviscosity grade oil, only the lowest W grade satisfied may be referred to on the label. Thus, an oil meeting the requirements for SAE grades 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, and 30 must be referred to as an SAE 10W-30 grade only.
The exception is a Newtonian oil (one without VII).
Quote:
Most oils will meet the viscosity requirements of at least one of the W grades. Nevertheless, consistent with historic practice, any Newtonian oil may be labeled as a single-grade oil (either with or without a W). Oils which are formulated with polymeric viscosity index improvers for the purpose of making them multiviscosity-grade products are non-Newtonian and must be labeled with the appropriate multiviscosity grade (both W and high-temperature grade). Since each W grade is defined on the basis of maximum cranking and pumping viscosities as well as minimum kinematic viscosities at 100 °C, it is possible for an oil to satisfy the requirements of more than one W grade. In labeling either a W grade or a multiviscosity grade oil, only the lowest W grade satisfied may be referred to on the label. Thus, an oil meeting the requirements for SAE grades 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, and 30 must be referred to as an SAE 10W-30 grade only.
The exception is a Newtonian oil (one without VII).
what is NOACK?
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Is this the one I was supposed to read?
Sounds to me like you have it right.
pitzel: Beyond what ksachachn mentioned, note that API and ACEA will have labelling requirements of all sorts that are part of the licensing procedure.
Is this the one I was supposed to read?
Sounds to me like you have it right.
pitzel: Beyond what ksachachn mentioned, note that API and ACEA will have labelling requirements of all sorts that are part of the licensing procedure.
Originally Posted By: car51
Yeah, I am really thinking of running a jug of the PUP 10w30 in the Focus.
Excellent choice. 5w-30 should be done away with. Have 0w-30 and 10w-30.
Yeah, I am really thinking of running a jug of the PUP 10w30 in the Focus.
Excellent choice. 5w-30 should be done away with. Have 0w-30 and 10w-30.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
but 10W-30 is an obsolete oil grade as virtually no manufacturer specifies it any more.
In fact a 10W-30 "synthetic" has never been specified as it's technically redundant.
Do you mean specified by the auto maker or by the oil maker? Earlier this century I was using Valvoline 100% synthetic 10W-30 because a rebate made it crazy cheap. One of my engines dripped with it but not with 5W-30 conventional.
but 10W-30 is an obsolete oil grade as virtually no manufacturer specifies it any more.
In fact a 10W-30 "synthetic" has never been specified as it's technically redundant.
Do you mean specified by the auto maker or by the oil maker? Earlier this century I was using Valvoline 100% synthetic 10W-30 because a rebate made it crazy cheap. One of my engines dripped with it but not with 5W-30 conventional.
My experience between 5W-30 and 10W-30 in a vehicle that specifies 10W-30: No difference noticed. No difference in oil consumption, no increased noise, no difference in oil pressure. This is in a 3800 Series II, that specifies 10W-30 and only recommends 5W-30 in lower temps. I've used high mileage conventional 10W-30, high mileage synthetic 10W-30, full synthetic 5W-30, and the previous owner used conventional 10W-30 or 5W-30, depending on the shop he used. It had conventional 5W-30 in it when I bought it.
Generally speaking, up here, if a gasser called for 10w-30 and it was going to spend its life outside, it got 5w-30 year round. The taxis stuck with 10w-30 year round, simply because they didn't have to worry much about cold starting. A monograde would have sufficed.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I don't find this to be very useful because these temps are not really COLD.
If you want cold, watch this video, though you've likely seen it:
...
Yeah, that's a good one!
Also, thanks to Shannow for posting the link to some cold oil tech papers with real meat...I'm going to have to find a good block of time to stare at them before I can really get much out of them, unfortunately.
I did read the paper that I THINK Shannow was pointing me to and its basic conclusion seemed to be that gallery pressurization times at extreme cold correlated well with MRV viscosities and not very well with gel indices (which I take to basically be pour points).
Is this the one I was supposed to read?
Might have to PM Shannow, I found this to be an interesting paper but am not sure how he intended it to tie into the conversation. Or, maybe he was just pointing me to the entire journal as an example of some real cold oil performance testing?
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I don't find this to be very useful because these temps are not really COLD.
If you want cold, watch this video, though you've likely seen it:
...
Yeah, that's a good one!
Also, thanks to Shannow for posting the link to some cold oil tech papers with real meat...I'm going to have to find a good block of time to stare at them before I can really get much out of them, unfortunately.
I did read the paper that I THINK Shannow was pointing me to and its basic conclusion seemed to be that gallery pressurization times at extreme cold correlated well with MRV viscosities and not very well with gel indices (which I take to basically be pour points).
Is this the one I was supposed to read?
Might have to PM Shannow, I found this to be an interesting paper but am not sure how he intended it to tie into the conversation. Or, maybe he was just pointing me to the entire journal as an example of some real cold oil performance testing?
The old 10W30 one ?
It was more of interest, and a little topical, as it was in a period when VI improved multigrades were "new", and some players were starting to become aware of the difference in high and low shear regimes and the protection offered.
I found it interesting as Selby later became one of the champions of high shear viscosity measurement.
Was more for interest, and the emerging problems that the multigrades posessed that is part of the ongoing debate about shear stability and "obsolete" oils here.
It was more of interest, and a little topical, as it was in a period when VI improved multigrades were "new", and some players were starting to become aware of the difference in high and low shear regimes and the protection offered.
I found it interesting as Selby later became one of the champions of high shear viscosity measurement.
Was more for interest, and the emerging problems that the multigrades posessed that is part of the ongoing debate about shear stability and "obsolete" oils here.
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