New to Real Winters; One Badly Ticking Lifter on Jeep 4.0L Startup/Don’t Drive Enough For 2x/Year OCI

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TLDR Version: ‘04 Jeep 4.0L w/ 133k. Lifter tick on cold (10°F-20°F) starts. PUP 5W30 or another 0W30!? What about Summer?

Hello,

This is my first post, and so I hope I’m not making a bunch of mistakes. I know if I search long enough, the knowledge is here to never need to actually post anything, and I’ve read a fair bit, but I’m not yet confident which way to move forward.

I just picked up a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0L with 133,000 miles from a nice old man my Dad’s age. I only include that part because it was a bit disarming in my purchase decision. I live in the Northern Nevada high desert, and temps range from low single digits to 40°F in the Winter, and 40’s to 100°F in the Summer. I drive about 5-6,000 miles per year.

When I arrived to get this Jeep, the exhaust manifold was cold to the touch, but the valve cover was still perceptibly warm (red flag #1). The oil was black, but the PO said it had been changed a few months prior, despite the maintenance minder showing 5,999 miles to service on a 6,000 mile set interval (red flag #2). They stated that they “barely drive it” (red flag #3). The Jeep fired up and ran and drove smoothly, with just a hint of lifter “clatter”, which I understand is a common Jeep 4.0L thing.

After getting home I found an oil change record which indicated the oil had nearly 10,000 miles on it. And on the first cold-start at ~20°F, I had ONE lifter ticking quite loudly until the Jeep reached nearly full operating temp, and then it went away.

Forgive me for not remembering the exact number from my owners manual, but Jeep recommends 10W30 Dino all the way down the 0°F (or close to 0°F anyway), and there were enough posts on the Jeep forum where people are adamant that you don’t need anything else. So, I drove down to O’Reilly and changed the oil with Castrol GTX 10w30 and a new Mopar filter, and the overall noise was a bit quieter, but the cold start tick was still there.

I drove it this way for a week; every morning that ONE lifter sounds like a gremlin with a ballpeen hammer under the valve cover, but when it’s warm it’s nearly perfect.

We took a trip over to California to see my folks, and the low was just above freezing, and the cold start in the morning made no noticeable noise at all. But I just know that when I go out and start it this morning at 20°F it’s gonna make a racket.

I’ve only had the Castrol in for ~500 miles, but I want to change it out for a lower Winter number oil. After the research I have done, I’m pretty set on trying Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, because of the extra detergents and ZDDP in the ad pack, but they don’t make a 0W30 that I can find in that product line. Is PUP 5W30 going to be thin enough at 10°F and below to make a difference, or should I look at another oil? I normally use Mobil 1 in my other car, and I know a lot of people will recommend that here, but I’ve read a few posts on BITOG about Mobil 1 producing high Iron across multiple 4.0L UOA’s, so I’m going to avoid that oil in this application.

Two other points for consideration. I only drive a maximum of about 6k miles per year, so, either I keep the Dino oil 3k mile OCI interval, or I run this lower Winter number during the Summer months, too. Is that going to be an issue? Does that perhaps make the PUP 5W30 a more well-rounded choice for my ticking lifter situation?

Also, should I consider a flush before I dump this 500 mile Castro GTX?

And, if I DON’T do a flush, should I even bother changing my 500 mile Mopar oil filter? It is a sideways mount, and so it’s got a half quart of Dino oil in it that won’t drain if I leave it.

Thank you for the advice. It’s good to be here.

Casey
 
My '98 4.0L seems happiest with a HM 5w30. Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 synthetic is what I'm currently running and seems to be the quietest for cold starts. So if it was mine that's what I would run and change it 3k miles a few times to "clean it out" then 5k after that and I think you should be perfectly fine. I've been running the 5w30 synthetic in mine year round, and it is primarily driven in the summer. This is the 4th 4.0L vehicle I've owned, and I've worked on several others. Really can't go wrong with a synthetic HM 5w30 year round.

There is a thread on the Jeep Strokers forum which is a forum dedicated to building 4.0L engines into 4.6/4.7 and larger stroker engines. They had a big discussion on comparing 5w30 with other thicker weights like 10w30, 10w40, 5w40, 15w40 and there was no measurable difference in wear.
 
A 0w oil would work well and I don't think a flush is worth the effort. You could try m1 esp 0w-30 or m1 fs 0w-40 which will shear to a 30 anyway. There's also m1 AFE 0w-30 but that tends to shear to a 20. I think you might have seen an old api SN PUP report as it's more toned down and not the same anymore.

The lifters might be dirty so I'd try valvoline restore and protect 5w-30 once it warms up later on.
 
If you think the engine is crusty go buy a 20qt bag of valvoline restore and protect for $93
10w30 conventional vs 5w30syn is a nothing burger.. as far as must use 10w30.
 
It's probably not lifter tick. Probably piston slap.
Could be piston slap too, but if it wasn't maintained it could definitely be lifter tick, which will only really get better with good maintenance and oil changes and running it. I wouldn't do any flushes, run good oil, and do short changes like 3k miles, then it will clean up on its own. I had this on my previous 4.0L, a 2000 Cherokee that was not maintained prior to my purchase. It was silent by the time I sold it.
 
I’d go with one of the 0w40 hdeo’s like T6, Delvac, Duron etc.
A little more expensive than their pcmo cousins, but are typically thicker to start with and will stay in grade over the drain interval.
 
The 4.0L Jeeps have a common issue where the flex plate bolts can back out and start making contact, which causes a ticking noise on cold starts that goes away as the engine warms up. If the noise seems louder under the car near the transmission, it's probably coming from the flex plate. Inspecting and tightening them isn't too much work.

PUP 5W-30 has good cold flow for a 5W, and is pretty close to a 0W (CCS of 4,000 cP @-30C). I doubt the noise has much to do with oil viscosity though if it can sometimes continue until the engine is almost warmed up.
 
You are barely even getting close to what most would call winter temperatures. 10W-30 is fine or even 5W-30 or 0W-30 if the engine is in great shape. Considering that the engine has 130k+ miles and the maintenance history is unknown I'd consider moving to a 5W-40 or maybe a 0W-40 in the dead of winter and a 10W-40 in the blazing heat of the summer.

How handy are you? I'd check the flexplate bolts like @twX mentioned. I'd also look for a crack in the exhaust manifold as those are known for cracking and will be more audible when the engine is cold. You can google this, they all more or less crack in the same spots.

Lastly, I'd pull the valve cover and take a look. You'll have an idea of how dirty the engine is by taking a peek under the valve cover and it would also be a good time to check and adjust the valve lash. You could have too much valve lash at cold causing lifter tick.

Also consider adding a cleaner to the engine long term to help clean the engine and also clean out that lifter if it is indeed the problem. Rislone Engine Treatment is well trusted here and isn't too aggressive to dislodge chunks of sludge or carbon if you have some and can be purchased at Walmart or any auto parts store. Add that to some cheap High Mileage oil and do short OCI's, no more than 3k miles. High Mileage oils tend to clean a bit better.

Or if you want to get fancy check out HPL's EC30 engine cleaner. It is a very good cleaner that is not harsh or aggressive and you can leave it in there for the entire 3k oil change. They recommend changing the oil filter halfway through the OCI just in case you had a ton of sludge and the filter is getting loaded with junk.

Valvoline Restore and Protect is also a very good oil and is somewhat new to the market. For all the commercially available oils (i.e. Walmart) it cleans better than most and is very affordable.
 
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Ok, so, you’ll have to forgive me for not replying one by one, but I’ve read every reply, and I really appreciate all of the info/suggestions.

Before I go too far, I should state that when I went out this morning to start the Jeep up (at 17°F), to my amazement it fired right up and didn’t tick at all. So, that’s the second cold start with no noise in two days, now. I have my fingers crossed that the fresh oil and trip to California loosened up whatever had clogged that lifter, and what I assumed was a fluke due to the warmer California temperature yesterday was just a now properly running engine.

I think I’d still like to consider making a switch to a 5w-30 synthetic year round. What I had read here on BITOG previously (and also in these replies @jeepman3071 ) had led me to believe that 5w-30 was probably fine for a year round oil.

I was NOT aware of PUP reformulation, @JavierH19 , and so perhaps I don’t necessarily want to spend the extra money to run that oil; because it isn’t exactly “cheap” where I am.

I will read up more on the Valvoline Restore & Protect, @Rand . It wasn’t even on my radar. Javier, is there a reason you suggested I should wait until it’s warmer to try it!?

@SwampSurvivor, I think the engine may have had a hint of piston slap initially, with what I called “clatter”, but a couple Italian tune ups after the oil change really quieted it down, and I ran a bottle of Gumout AIO through the gas tank after reading that it was well-regarded here. I barely hear any trace of that noise now.

@AdmiralYoda, I do plan to dive way further into the engine, but my garage is full of cars in various stages of disassembly and all work on the Jeep will be outdoors until I get those projects done, so I’d like to get through the cold months before I actually dive too far into it. My commute has some ice and snow up into the mountains, which is why I purchased the Jeep, so it has to stay operable, too.

Thanks again to everybody for all of the info. I’m really curious about this Valvoline product…I’ll read that link when I get home from work tonight.

Can anyone point me to report on the API SP version of PUP 5W-30? Is it still a good oil? Does it still have enough Zinc for a flat tappet cam!? I know the 4.0L has pretty light springs…

Thanks again!
 
Pennzoil ultra Platinum is a excellent oil, in your case I would use the Valvoline R&P 5w-30 (first choice), it will perform best in your use and maybe clean things up inside your engine & you may see positive results after a couple of oil changes, Rember to use a good (Fram ultra) filter. and use a fuel /injector system cleaner, check your pcv valve or replace too.
 
Honestly, don't overthink this. You don't need to worry about ZDDP levels with a stock engine that has low valve spring pressures like this. Any modern oil will be fine for this application.

I'd recommend running a high mileage full syn at yearly intervals in your case. If noise is a concern, oils with higher boron content are known to quell some of it, so I'd recommend the full-syn HM oils from Quaker State, Castrol, or Valvoline. Castrol Edge HM in my experience is silky smooth. Pennzoil Platinum HM currently has little to no boron content. The regular Pennzoil Full Synthetic contains some though and would be fine as well, as does Supertech.
 
Pennzoil ultra Platinum is a excellent oil, in your case I would use the Valvoline R&P 5w-30 (first choice), it will perform best in your use and maybe clean things up inside your engine & you may see positive results after a couple of oil changes, Rember to use a good (Fram ultra) filter. and use a fuel /injector system cleaner, check your pcv valve or replace too.

Yeah, I think I’m sold. And I just got done running through a tank of the Gumoit AIO fuel treatment, which is supposed to be one of the most pure PEA treatments according to this site, if I did my homework right. Next up is a full tune up and transmission service.

Honestly, don't overthink this. You don't need to worry about ZDDP levels with a stock engine that has low valve spring pressures like this. Any modern oil will be fine for this application.

I'd recommend running a high mileage full syn at yearly intervals in your case. If noise is a concern, oils with higher boron content are known to quell some of it, so I'd recommend the full-syn HM oils from Quaker State, Castrol, or Valvoline. Castrol Edge HM in my experience is silky smooth. Pennzoil Platinum HM currently has little to no boron content. The regular Pennzoil Full Synthetic contains some though and would be fine as well, as does Supertech.

The only reason I’ve gravitated away from the HM oils is because I don’t have any leaks, and it was my understanding that they would all swell gaskets and seals to some extent. So far this engine doesn’t appear to be using any oil either.
 
Well, I guess I spoke too soon. The lifter tick was back again this morning. The difference between this morning’s cold start and the last two “quiet” days is that I only drove about 40 miles total yesterday, and the previous two days were both well over 100.

I really don’t have time to tear into it right now, so I think I’m going to switch to the Valvoline R&P right away. Question is, should I bother with a flush first? The Castro GTX has ~500 miles on it, and so I would imagine it would take a lot of dirty stuff with it if I ran a flush before I dump it. Brand new Mopar filter too. Or should I just let the Restore & Protect do its thing?
 
might as do a flush if you're going to change it right away. I'd also be doing Techron in the gas tank
 
Its simple enough to pull the valve cover, see which valve is ticking? Or if anything is out of adjustment? It does sound like a cracked manifold.

I wouldn't change out perfectly good oil. If you did, I'd try 5w-30 Maxlife.
 
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