Yamada water pumps

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What hasn't been mentioned is this.. Just because an aftermarket company sells you a part that claims is "OEM" it doesn't mean that.. Ok let me explain.. Honda tells the supplier to make them x-amount of water pumps made to the Honda specification. Some in production do not meet that specification so they're not sent to Honda. Where do they go? They go out the side door, so to speak, to the aftermarket to sell. Ask me how I know?! I've gotten those parts, they die an early death compared to the genuine Honda part. When the aftermarket sells them they have the same markings, etc. that the Honda ones do, difference? They did not meet Honda's standards! That's why they're not being sold at the Honda dealer!

I am not one to say to always by OEM only, but this is what I've learned. Also, if the aftermarket is "copying" the OEM part they do not have to make it to the same specs, sure they're the supplier to the OEM, but not to the same specs.. See? there are two things going on here.. one being rejected OEM parts, and aftermarket supplier to OEM making their own parts under their own name! Then there's another.. Let's say that the OEM makes an update to the part, the aftermarket copied the original design, and hardly ever make the updated part.. Isn't this fun?! Yep I've learned all this with the Civic along the way..

Also, if you hear a noise and you don't like it, forget that mechanic trying to convince you otherwise. If I heard ANY noises after a Timing Belt replacement I wouldn't be trying to convince myself that it's ok. I'm not here to scare you but I have a Honda Civic and it makes NO noises.. It shouldn't, what's there to make noise? If the belt isn't rubbing, the water pump bearing is good, the tension is correct, the tensioner bearing is made correctly, nothing should be audible.

I was tempted to go with aftermarket TB kits, but for the labor $$$ it cost me for the shop to do the TB job, doing the job once was cheaper in the long run. I do buy aftermarket parts for the Civic, but not wanting to do the job over (I've learned in the past) you get what ya pay for.. sorry but it's true..

so.. If you can trust the dealership you were going to go to, then get their opinion, if they're honest they'll explain what the noise you're hearing is.. I bet it's a bad bearing in the water pump or a tensioner not keeping tension on the belt.
 

rcs

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What hasn't been mentioned is this.. Just because an aftermarket company sells you a part that claims is "OEM" it doesn't mean that.. Ok let me explain.. Honda tells the supplier to make them x-amount of water pumps made to the Honda specification. Some in production do not meet that specification so they're not sent to Honda. Where do they go? They go out the side door, so to speak, to the aftermarket to sell. Ask me how I know?! I've gotten those parts, they die an early death compared to the genuine Honda part. When the aftermarket sells them they have the same markings, etc. that the Honda ones do, difference? They did not meet Honda's standards! That's why they're not being sold at the Honda dealer!

I am not one to say to always by OEM only, but this is what I've learned. Also, if the aftermarket is "copying" the OEM part they do not have to make it to the same specs, sure they're the supplier to the OEM, but not to the same specs.. See? there are two things going on here.. one being rejected OEM parts, and aftermarket supplier to OEM making their own parts under their own name! Then there's another.. Let's say that the OEM makes an update to the part, the aftermarket copied the original design, and hardly ever make the updated part.. Isn't this fun?! Yep I've learned all this with the Civic along the way..

Also, if you hear a noise and you don't like it, forget that mechanic trying to convince you otherwise. If I heard ANY noises after a Timing Belt replacement I wouldn't be trying to convince myself that it's ok. I'm not here to scare you but I have a Honda Civic and it makes NO noises.. It shouldn't, what's there to make noise? If the belt isn't rubbing, the water pump bearing is good, the tension is correct, the tensioner bearing is made correctly, nothing should be audible.

I was tempted to go with aftermarket TB kits, but for the labor $$$ it cost me for the shop to do the TB job, doing the job once was cheaper in the long run. I do buy aftermarket parts for the Civic, but not wanting to do the job over (I've learned in the past) you get what ya pay for.. sorry but it's true..

so.. If you can trust the dealership you were going to go to, then get their opinion, if they're honest they'll explain what the noise you're hearing is.. I bet it's a bad bearing in the water pump or a tensioner not keeping tension on the belt.
Thank you so much for that reply and explanation! I did not realize regarding the the parts that don't meet specification and then end of as aftermarket! It makes sense though in regards to this Aisin pump making the noise. I just trusted that so many others have used this with no issues and I just happen to get a bad pump. Now I am even more determined to get to the dealership and get it changed out, or have my mechanic do it again with the OEM parts. We have determined it is most likely the water pump.
 

rcs

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OP, just my observation. But, i've always found Japanese rubber more pliable/softer. OEM vs Gates (domestic). Just my humble opinion. I rather OEM vs aftermarket for Japanese vehicles. Trav is our expert...
Okay, but I have read on this forum and others that the Mitsuboshi belt is a great belt to use. I have one in my garage now, it is much softer than the Gates Japan that is next to it. The Gates Japan belt is not a Unitta belt but it is made in Japan. It was on my car from a different shop,...and my engine sounded awful with that belt on it, and it is a stiffer belt . So the dealership is going to put in a Gates/Unitta belt made in Japan? I am going to go to the parts department and in my uneducated opinion compare both belts. I am in no way being disrespectful to your opinion and comments, so please do not take this as me being controversial. I am just trying to get this right, for the last time. With doing this again , this time with the dealership this will be the 4th, time, yes 4th time this has all been changed out.

Some folks have said 50/50 split they did not like or liked the tensioner that is Honda OEM,...some said it failed as compared to the Aisin one. I am up in the air about that one.
 

rcs

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OP, just my observation. But, i've always found Japanese rubber more pliable/softer. OEM vs Gates (domestic). Just my humble opinion. I rather OEM vs aftermarket for Japanese vehicles. Trav is our expert...
thanks for that information
 
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I have done over 20 of these jobs for myself, friends and family and have always used the Aisin TKH-002 Kits, never a single problem. Use with confidence.

Some of these vehicles have their second Aisin Kit on them after going 100K trouble free miles.
 

rcs

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I have done over 20 of these jobs for myself, friends and family and have always used the Aisin TKH-002 Kits, never a single problem. Use with confidence.

Some of these vehicles have their second Aisin Kit on them after going 100K trouble free miles.
I know Drew, I get it..that is very encouraging! But obviously there have been issues as reported by some folks. I don't know what the problem is why some are okay and some are not. This is the 2nd Aisin kit installed in my SUV and the same noise has occurred. When disconnecting the serpentine belt the noise is there. I then had a Gates belt, tensioner and pulleys put in, by a different garage...but NOT a Gates water pump,...AND the noise was still there, because the Aisin water pump was still installed. I should have learned my lesson then and NOT put in another Aisn kit and went OEM. I know, I know lesson learned, but I was not thinking straight and thought, maybe I just got a bad kit. Because of the Gates bad reputation, my OCD, and being fearful , I had all of that Gates stuff pulled out and reinstalled with all Aisin kit just last week! This situation is going to send me to the loony bin and a rubber room! I wish I could be like the lucky folks who did not have a problem. But despite being a women, my engine does not sound like it should,...that wonderful purring with no extra noises! I am very in tune to my whole vehicle. Even my mechanic stated he has never had anyone listen to their engine like I do. I can even tell you when one of my tires is 1 pound off in pressure.
 
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Thank you so much for that reply and explanation! I did not realize regarding the the parts that don't meet specification and then end of as aftermarket! It makes sense though in regards to this Aisin pump making the noise. I just trusted that so many others have used this with no issues and I just happen to get a bad pump. Now I am even more determined to get to the dealership and get it changed out, or have my mechanic do it again with the OEM parts. We have determined it is most likely the water pump.
Okay, but I have read on this forum and others that the Mitsuboshi belt is a great belt to use. I have one in my garage now, it is much softer than the Gates Japan that is next to it. The Gates Japan belt is not a Unitta belt but it is made in Japan. It was on my car from a different shop,...and my engine sounded awful with that belt on it, and it is a stiffer belt . So the dealership is going to put in a Gates/Unitta belt made in Japan? I am going to go to the parts department and in my uneducated opinion compare both belts. I am in no way being disrespectful to your opinion and comments, so please do not take this as me being controversial. I am just trying to get this right, for the last time. With doing this again , this time with the dealership this will be the 4th, time, yes 4th time this has all been changed out.

Some folks have said 50/50 split they did not like or liked the tensioner that is Honda OEM,...some said it failed as compared to the Aisin one. I am up in the air about that one.

Hey you're welcome.. Just passing the knowledge I've received along for everyone else. I learned about the aftermarket re-boxing the 2nds/rejects from Honda with the idle control valve. Failed in less than a year, got a warranty replacement died 10 months.. Gave up paid the crazy price at Honda been years now and hasn't died.

Your luck with parts sounds like mine! lol.. But, I was looking at the parts diagram of your engine, looks like the 3.5L V-6 is the same no matter the trim level in the Pilot for 2015. Anyway, there is an idler pulley in with the timing belt, was that replaced? I see the tensioner and that associated parts, timing belt adjuster (#6 in diagram) and auto tensioner (#8 in diagram), interesting there are two in there. then the pulley.. (part #10 on the diagram) pasted below
1662730990010.gif



figured I would put a picture here.. showing everything.. timing belt is on the left, #5


Oh about the timing belt from Honda.. check this out, here's the part number, look what it says in parenthesis

Belt, Timing (197YU20 Ve-501) (Unit Ta) - Honda (14400-RCA-A01)​


yup Unitta! And the gates belts from Honda are stiff but slightly flexible, from the ones on my civic. I wish I remembered where mine was made.. I think it was Japan. The Thailand stuff was the coolant hoses, so yeah Japan for the belt.

I'm still wondering about that idler pulley..
 
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I know Drew, I get it..that is very encouraging! But obviously there have been issues as reported by some folks. I don't know what the problem is why some are okay and some are not. This is the 2nd Aisin kit installed in my SUV and the same noise has occurred. When disconnecting the serpentine belt the noise is there. I then had a Gates belt, tensioner and pulleys put in, by a different garage...but NOT a Gates water pump,...AND the noise was still there, because the Aisin water pump was still installed. I should have learned my lesson then and NOT put in another Aisn kit and went OEM. I know, I know lesson learned, but I was not thinking straight and thought, maybe I just got a bad kit. Because of the Gates bad reputation, my OCD, and being fearful , I had all of that Gates stuff pulled out and reinstalled with all Aisin kit just last week! This situation is going to send me to the loony bin and a rubber room! I wish I could be like the lucky folks who did not have a problem. But despite being a women, my engine does not sound like it should,...that wonderful purring with no extra noises! I am very in tune to my whole vehicle. Even my mechanic stated he has never had anyone listen to their engine like I do. I can even tell you when one of my tires is 1 pound off in pressure.
RCS-
I dont think you can resolve your concern here- everyone has an opinion. I suggest you call Aisin tech support and ask them what is the deal with their water pumps on the Honda J35 series engines. Ask about their sensitivity to TB brands, too.
Several posters have extensive experience (and mechanical abilities) with these engines and they opine/suggest just drive it. Thats what I would do.
 

rcs

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Hey you're welcome.. Just passing the knowledge I've received along for everyone else. I learned about the aftermarket re-boxing the 2nds/rejects from Honda with the idle control valve. Failed in less than a year, got a warranty replacement died 10 months.. Gave up paid the crazy price at Honda been years now and hasn't died.

Your luck with parts sounds like mine! lol.. But, I was looking at the parts diagram of your engine, looks like the 3.5L V-6 is the same no matter the trim level in the Pilot for 2015. Anyway, there is an idler pulley in with the timing belt, was that replaced? I see the tensioner and that associated parts, timing belt adjuster (#6 in diagram) and auto tensioner (#8 in diagram), interesting there are two in there. then the pulley.. (part #10 on the diagram) pasted below
View attachment 116244


figured I would put a picture here.. showing everything.. timing belt is on the left, #5


Oh about the timing belt from Honda.. check this out, here's the part number, look what it says in parenthesis

Belt, Timing (197YU20 Ve-501) (Unit Ta) - Honda (14400-RCA-A01)​


yup Unitta! And the gates belts from Honda are stiff but slightly flexible, from the ones on my civic. I wish I remembered where mine was made.. I think it was Japan. The Thailand stuff was the coolant hoses, so yeah Japan for the belt.

I'm still wondering about that idler pulley..
Everything from the Aisin kit is made in Japan,...pulleys tensioners etc. the only thing from Thailand is the Mitsuboshi belt. I have the Touring Pilot 4 Wheel drive. Thanks for the diagram,...and yes I made them put in a NEW Idler pulley bolt! :)
 

rcs

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RCS-
I dont think you can resolve your concern here- everyone has an opinion. I suggest you call Aisin tech support and ask them what is the deal with their water pumps on the Honda J35 series engines. Ask about their sensitivity to TB brands, too.
Several posters have extensive experience (and mechanical abilities) with these engines and they opine/suggest just drive it. Thats what I would do.
Wilbur wow that is a great idea! I am going to research that and call them! Thanks for the specific questions to ask also, I would have not known what to say to them.
Oh yes I am driving it, I have to I don't have any other vehicle. And honestly it takes off like a rocket!
 

rcs

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I have done over 20 of these jobs for myself, friends and family and have always used the Aisin TKH-002 Kits, never a single problem. Use with confidence.

Some of these vehicles have their second Aisin Kit on them after going 100K trouble free miles.
That is amazing,...and the big thing is no odd warble noise....that's what is killing me.
 
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Wilbur wow that is a great idea! I am going to research that and call them! Thanks for the specific questions to ask also, I would have not known what to say to them.
Oh yes I am driving it, I have to I don't have any other vehicle. And honestly it takes off like a rocket!
Rocket? Thats funny. Mine goes like a bat outta hell after I installed the Aisin kit. I dont know why as the original TB system was all in spec. I thought it was all in my head! Maybe just confirmation bias.
 

rcs

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Well Gentleman, I tried to contact Aisin Tech support, there is no one available, they are all working from home remotely. The person who did answer the phone gave me a non working number and then transferred me to "someone who could help maybe so leave a message".
Well being OCD that does not sit well with me. So I went onto their website and sent an email, BUT better than that I went onto LinkIn and contacted Scott Turpin who is the CEO of Aisin America 🙂. I sent him a lengthy note regarding my issues. I am hoping he follows through and responds, when he does I will keep all of you posted. I did mention to him the TSB from June 2008 regarding these water pumps, and asked him, did his company not fix the casting that is off by a few degrees? I also mentioned to him that there are folks like you guys who have used these kits many times with no issues. So we will see IF he responds and what his thoughts are.
 

rcs

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Rocket? Thats funny. Mine goes like a bat outta hell after I installed the Aisin kit. I dont know why as the original TB system was all in spec. I thought it was all in my head! Maybe just confirmation bias.
Agree!! LOL...I am confirming what you just said. I noticed a very big difference, in the engine, the pick up everything. I don't know maybe it was the refreshing 2 gallons of blue coolant like the blue Gatorade LOL :) that the engine liked LOL! But yeah man if it wasn't for this daggone noise, I wouldn't be asking so many questions! LOL
 

rcs

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Oh by the way one more thing regarding contacting the Aisin support. There is actually an Aisin engineering company building literally 10 minutes from where I live. Anyway when I called there and spoke to a women (who was Japanese), I told her briefly that I wanted to speak to someone who was in tech support. I told her I installed the Aisin kit and had some questions because it was not working out well for me,...her reply....
"You mean you did not install Honda parts!"....Uh wow no ma'mam I did not,...I was counting on your parts to to be just as good, after all isn't this why you offer these kits to consumers? So that tells me alot! Especially from someone who actually works there! Not bashing the product, just giving more info.
 
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Every year, make, and model are different. I would find a Master Mechanic, not a tech. For my application I trust OEM Japan. As aforementioned. Some companies make parts according to OEM specs then run another line so to speak for aftermarket parts. Some may be the exact, some a bit different. (So I've been told and read). No first person knowledge.

Again, I'm no expert. Just my humble opinion. There are some extremely intelligent people on this board. You get what you pay for. I always tip my mechanic. I rather pay him accordingly and have faith in his work. I'm not fond of Chinese parts. But, in the last few years I have seen excellent Denso parts made in China. Again, manufactured to OEM spec.

Just remember that anything mechanical can and will break eventually!
 
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Oh by the way one more thing regarding contacting the Aisin support. There is actually an Aisin engineering company building literally 10 minutes from where I live. Anyway when I called there and spoke to a women (who was Japanese), I told her briefly that I wanted to speak to someone who was in tech support. I told her I installed the Aisin kit and had some questions because it was not working out well for me,...her reply....
"You mean you did not install Honda parts!"....Uh wow no ma'mam I did not,...I was counting on your parts to to be just as good, after all isn't this why you offer these kits to consumers? So that tells me alot! Especially from someone who actually works there! Not bashing the product, just giving more info.

That is hilarious! It's like calling Castrol and they said "Well why aren't you using Mobil products instead?!" lol.. that is the funniest thing I've heard lately.. I'm dying laughing over here! Great faith in your products Aisin! :ROFLMAO:
 

rcs

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That is hilarious! It's like calling Castrol and they said "Well why aren't you using Mobil products instead?!" lol.. that is the funniest thing I've heard lately.. I'm dying laughing over here! Great faith in your products Aisin! :ROFLMAO:
Yeah LOL!,, I hope for her sake it wasn’t a recorded line! I’m still laughing about it!
 

rcs

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Every year, make, and model are different. I would find a Master Mechanic, not a tech. For my application I trust OEM Japan. As aforementioned. Some companies make parts according to OEM specs then run another line so to speak for aftermarket parts. Some may be the exact, some a bit different. (So I've been told and read). No first person knowledge.

Again, I'm no expert. Just my humble opinion. There are some extremely intelligent people on this board. You get what you pay for. I always tip my mechanic. I rather pay him accordingly and have faith in his work. I'm not fond of Chinese parts. But, in the last few years I have seen excellent Denso parts made in China. Again, manufactured to OEM spec.

Just remember that anything mechanical can and will break eventually!
I have been searching for a master mechanic, but I have not found one in my area. If anyone on this board can recommend someone in Southeast Michigan let me know. I have,poked all over the surrounding area and no one impresses me. And yes indeed I agree I always tip my mechanic and bring him lunch.
and that is what scares me “anything mechanical can and will break eventually “ which is why despite the fact that I have low mileage on my car I had the timing belt and everything else changed at the 7 year mark. I mean if Honda says 7 years or 100,000 miles they ought to know how long their OEM parts are going to last. Even thought my original pump and belt looked good. I wish I would have kept them!
 
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Oh by the way one more thing regarding contacting the Aisin support. There is actually an Aisin engineering company building literally 10 minutes from where I live. Anyway when I called there and spoke to a women (who was Japanese), I told her briefly that I wanted to speak to someone who was in tech support. I told her I installed the Aisin kit and had some questions because it was not working out well for me,...her reply....
"You mean you did not install Honda parts!"....Uh wow no ma'mam I did not,...I was counting on your parts to to be just as good, after all isn't this why you offer these kits to consumers? So that tells me alot! Especially from someone who actually works there! Not bashing the product, just giving more info.
Her saying that neans nothing wo the surrounding context. She may have been joking,sarcastic, or is a disgruntled employee.

I believe that you are making "perfect" the enemy of good with your TB concern. Understandable.
 
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