Yamada water pumps

[The_Eric]

I believe that you are making "perfect" the enemy of good with your TB concern. Understandable.

I believe it's "don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough"

rcs - perhaps you've addressed it already, but what about that correction shim? Seems like a cost effective way to appease your inner OCD monster? (Not mocking you, I know how it goes)

My 2 cents on the "master" mechanic... Education and training are not the end all, be all of a given field. It does tend to assure much greater chances of quality, but as I'm sure you've seen, spending 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars and years of training isn't a guarantee of having a good doc... Curious how many potentially life threatening or life altering mistakes you've seen docs make?

Find a mech who answers your questions the way you want, who strikes you as honest and will stand behind their work. "Master" means little if they don't care about you or your car.

 

[willbur]

I believe it's "don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough"

rcs - perhaps you've addressed it already, but what about that correction shim? Seems like a cost effective way to appease your inner OCD monster? (Not mocking you, I know how it goes)

My 2 cents on the "master" mechanic... Education and training are not the end all, be all of a given field. It does tend to assure much greater chances of quality, but as I'm sure you've seen, spending 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars and years of training isn't a guarantee of having a good doc... Curious how many potentially life threatening or life altering mistakes you've seen docs make?

Find a mech who answers your questions the way you want, who strikes you as honest and will stand behind their work. "Master" means little if they don't care about you or your car.

Quote depends on your source- I like the more concise version LOL. Gets the point across. Besides working on vehicles, do you teach english class? LOL

 

[rcs]

Her saying that neans nothing wo the surrounding context. She may have been joking,sarcastic, or is a disgruntled employee.

I believe that you are making "perfect" the enemy of good with your TB concern. Understandable.

I certainly hope she was not joking or being sarcastic. I am not sure what you mean by "making the "perfect" enemy of good with my TB concerns"?
I mean no harm and am not trying to be controversial. I believed in this Aisin 2 times,...enough to pay the money to have to done twice! I am not rich by any means, but I think that anyone would be concerned about a noise that was not there prior to any mechanical work being done on their car. It will all get settled once I have the OEM Honda parts put in, I hope!

 

[rcs]

I believe it's "don't let perfection be the enemy of good enough"

rcs - perhaps you've addressed it already, but what about that correction shim? Seems like a cost effective way to appease your inner OCD monster? (Not mocking you, I know how it goes)

My 2 cents on the "master" mechanic... Education and training are not the end all, be all of a given field. It does tend to assure much greater chances of quality, but as I'm sure you've seen, spending 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars and years of training isn't a guarantee of having a good doc... Curious how many potentially life threatening or life altering mistakes you've seen docs make?

Find a mech who answers your questions the way you want, who strikes you as honest and will stand behind their work. "Master" means little if they don't care about you or your car.

I thought about the correction shim and thought about presenting that to my mechanic.
But they also have to grind down an area, I believe. That to me is not accurate and a shot in the dark what if they grind off too much etc . So I am just going to have the new Yamada water pump installed. I appreciate the suggestion. It is not easy finding a good mechanic in my area, I truly wish it were!
I agree regarding the comments of master mechanic.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Did you know about the warble noise before you bought it?

 

[The_Eric]

I thought about the correction shim and thought about presenting that to my mechanic.
But they also have to grind down an area, I believe. That to me is not accurate and a shot in the dark what if they grind off too much etc . So I am just going to have the new Yamada water pump installed. I appreciate the suggestion. It is not easy finding a good mechanic in my area, I truly wish it were!
I agree regarding the comments of master mechanic.

It is my understanding that the grinding is only to relieve the engine mount to clear the idler since the shim will move it slightly outward and has nothing to do with proper alignment of the belt.

 

[rcs]

Did you know about the warble noise before you bought it?

No I did not. And my mechanic said he always used the Aisin kit with no issues. I trusted him and the forums I read. I read many forums that was the OEM comparable kit to use because the Gates kit is not good. I did not know about the great guys here on this forum, that I should only use OEM HOnda parts for this. Lesson Learned!!! That is why I thought perhaps I just got a bad kit and had a 2nd one installed! He said at 1st the noise I was hearing is normal. I knew it wasn't...I know my car and engine very well! That is when I started researching this and realized it is the water pump. IF I had known about this I would have either had the dealership do the job the 2nd time or would have purchased all OEM HOonda parts and had my mechanic do it. Again lesson learned, an expensive one also. My mechanic still thinks the noise is normal, he had me come to his garage and listen to a 2014 Pilot that had no changes. Yes the noise is "slightly there" but NOT like the one I hear after my engine warms up. And who knows, maybe when that 2014 was built it had an Aisin pump in it. I am not sure when Honda switched over to the Yamada pumps. All I know is all these years that I have had my car prior to the TB change, I did not have this noise, and believe me it is loud. I can't hear it in the car when driving, but once you step out of the car you can hear it, of course it is worse in my garage, but I can hear it when I stand near the engine even outside.

 

[rcs]

It is my understanding that the grinding is only to relieve the engine mount to clear the idler since the shim will move it slightly outward and has nothing to do with proper alignment of the belt.

Thanks Erie for the clarification. I am more comfortable with a brand new Yamada pump. What if they don't clean the metal shavings properly after the modification? Too many unknown factors for me,...I need to be able to sleep at night,...of which I haven't slept peacefully in 2 months because of this issue.

 

[rcs]

When you guys do timing belt changes, do you also check the oil pan seals and replace anything if needed also? I saw this on a Honda Tech forum and one of the techs mentioned he always does this since you are in the same area anyway. What are your thoughts?
Since I am going to have this done again with OEM parts,...I figured I would have that checked also. I have issues with oil consumption in my vehicle and no visible leaks on my garage floor or where I park at work,...thank God.

 

[rcs]

Oh I agree! My mechanic stated to me this morning that he did not think it was from the Aisin water pump or kit. He respects the brand also. This is the 2nd installation with in a 2 week period! I had him do it over again because I thought the 1st one was defective. So perhaps it IS something else going on and not the water pump. I am still going to take it to the dealership tomorrow and get their opinion. I can't imagine,...OR it is just MY luck to get 2 kits with the same issue! Gee

 

[The motor guy]

Yamada makes all kinds of pumps.

 

[rcs]

When you guys do timing belt changes, do you also check the oil pan seals and replace anything if needed also? I saw this on a Honda Tech forum and one of the techs mentioned he always does this since you are in the same area anyway. What are your thoughts?
Since I am going to have this done again with OEM parts,...I figured I would have that checked also. I have issues with oil consumption in my vehicle and no visible leaks on my garage floor or where I park at work,...thank God.

restating,//// edit I have NO issues with oil consumption with my car...

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Yamada makes all kinds of pumps.

They make great boat motors too.

 

[rcs]

There are zero issues with using the OEM Yamada water pump along with the Gates Unitta timing belt. The Unitta belt is made in Japan by Gates to a higher standard than the U.S. made Gates timing belts. These are the Honda OEM factory parts used by Honda dealerships with 100% success. AISIN made water pumps for Honda vehicles in the 80's and 90's and most Toyotas, but Yamada is the OEM supplier for the Honda V-6 engines. Mitsuboshi belts are OEM for many japanese vehicles, including many older Hondas. The problem with the AISIN water pump is that the casting is slightly off by a few degrees on the mounting boss for the idler pulley, causing the belt to ride at a slight angle which can cause the warbling noise due to the timing belt occasionally rubbing on the pulser flange. There is a shim that Honda makes for ~$25 to correct the angle of the idler pulley when using AISIN pumps on the J35 V-6 engines. The official technical service bulletin describes the resolution procedure here:

HONDA TSB #08-045

Nukeman, on one of the pages of this TSB it states to "install a new timing belt drive pulley gear"? What part is that? Is it the same as the idler pulley? I will be getting these parts from my dealership and having my mechanic do the job. I want to make sure to get all the right parts. It also says to put in a new timing belt as well. But other folks have said I can reuse the Mitsuboshi belt that is in there now. I think I will purchase a new belt from the dealership in the event the belt coming off may have some wear to it because of the rubbing?
I want to get it right this time and get rid of that annoying noise. Thanks in advance for your time in inserting my question.

 

[Junk]

When you guys do timing belt changes, do you also check the oil pan seals and replace anything if needed also? I saw this on a Honda Tech forum and one of the techs mentioned he always does this since you are in the same area anyway. What are your thoughts?
Since I am going to have this done again with OEM parts,...I figured I would have that checked also. I have issues with oil consumption in my vehicle and no visible leaks on my garage floor or where I park at work,...thank God.

We usually do cam and crank seals at the 2nd belt service, around 200K miles, as they're usually not an issue before then. To us every 100K seems a bit overkill. For the record, we had tons of trouble with Gates kits not lasting the service interval, namely the water pumps leaking, we switched to the Aisin kit a couple years ago. Have probably installed 30 of them with no issue. Not necessarily helpful for your situation, and you definitely can't go wrong with OE parts, but I'm surprised we haven't seen issues with one before now if they're problematic, as we use them almost exclusively unless we can't get one. Have you consulted Honda and actually had them asses it? If you read the TSB, not only does it not apply to your car, but depending on whether the tensioner pulley or idler pulley is causing the noise, if it's the idler causing the warble, changing the water pump that the tensioner mounts to is going to change absolutely nothing. Whatever the case good luck getting it resolved.

 

[rcs]

We usually do cam and crank seals at the 2nd belt service, around 200K miles, as they're usually not an issue before then. To us every 100K seems a bit overkill. For the record, we had tons of trouble with Gates kits not lasting the service interval, namely the water pumps leaking, we switched to the Aisin kit a couple years ago. Have probably installed 30 of them with no issue. Not necessarily helpful for your situation, and you definitely can't go wrong with OE parts, but I'm surprised we haven't seen issues with one before now if they're problematic, as we use them almost exclusively unless we can't get one. Have you consulted Honda and actually had them asses it? If you read the TSB, not only does it not apply to your car, but depending on whether the tensioner pulley or idler pulley is causing the noise, if it's the idler causing the warble, changing the water pump that the tensioner mounts to is going to change absolutely nothing. Whatever the case good luck getting it resolved.

So you are saying it is the idler pulley causing the warble noise? Even though it has been resolved in other cars when the water pumps were replaced with an OE Yamada? Hmm that is interesting. Well I am going for the whole kit and kaboodle on this try...nothing but OEM for freaking everything!
No I haven't had the dealership assess it, that was my next appointment. I have only a limited amount of time between work to make these appointments.
Thanks for the good luck,..I will take whatever I can get at this point...!

 

[Junk]

So you are saying it is the idler pulley causing the warble noise? Even though it has been resolved in other cars when the water pumps were replaced with an OE Yamada? Hmm that is interesting. Well I am going for the whole kit and kaboodle on this try...nothing but OEM for freaking everything!
No I haven't had the dealership assess it, that was my next appointment. I have only a limited amount of time between work to make these appointments.
Thanks for the good luck,..I will take whatever I can get at this point...!

So the trash Gates kits used to come with the shim, and if I remember correctly they claimed it was the idler that caused the noise due to a machining problem on the engine; specifically the oil pump if I remember right. The tensioner pulley contacting the engine mount bracket would be a metallic scraping noise, and that would be either a tensioner problem or issue with the water pump. I never had one exhibit the problem and never installed a shim as part of a normal service, so can't verify either way from personal experience, although that means I can't say for certain that the pump CANT cause a warble noise either; anything is possible. To be fair, the Aisin issues haven't been documented by the company or in aftermarket service information as far as I can tell, so if it's mostly Honda forums that point it out I havent researched that far.

 

[rcs]

So the trash Gates kits used to come with the shim, and if I remember correctly they claimed it was the idler that caused the noise due to a machining problem on the engine; specifically the oil pump if I remember right. The tensioner pulley contacting the engine mount bracket would be a metallic scraping noise, and that would be either a tensioner problem or issue with the water pump. I never had one exhibit the problem and never installed a shim as part of a normal service, so can't verify either way from personal experience, although that means I can't say for certain that the pump CANT cause a warble noise either; anything is possible. To be fair, the Aisin issues haven't been documented by the company or in aftermarket service information as far as I can tell, so if it's mostly Honda forums that point it out I havent researched that far.

Exactly! My mechanic got his kit from World Pac,.this replaced the original parts...the World Pac .was replaced with an Aisin kit from Rock Auto...so 2 very reputable places! I am going to contact Rock Auto as this was the last kit that put in my car 7/6/2022. It has been said that the J35 engines are pretty particular to the parts installed,...so OEM all the way for me,...I can't play this game anymore, not knowing what part is the issue. Most say it is the water pump and I believe them, I had a Gates Japan belt and pulleys put in in a different garage and the noise was still there, the only part NOT changed at that interval was the water pump (Aisin),..so by the process of elimination and the excellent gentlemen on this forum it has to be the water pump.

 

[Junk]

Exactly! My mechanic got his kit from World Pac,.this replaced the original parts...the World Pac .was replaced with an Aisin kit from Rock Auto...so 2 very reputable places! I am going to contact Rock Auto as this was the last kit that put in my car 7/6/2022. It has been said that the J35 engines are pretty particular to the parts installed,...so OEM all the way for me,...I can't play this game anymore, not knowing what part is the issue. Most say it is the water pump and I believe them, I had a Gates Japan belt and pulleys put in in a different garage and the noise was still there, the only part NOT changed at that interval was the water pump (Aisin),..so by the process of elimination and the excellent gentlemen on this forum it has to be the water pump.

Definitely hope that takes care of it for you

 

[rcs]

Good evening ladies and gentlemen . It is finally fixed. My engine is purring like it was when it was brand new. Love it I took my 2015 Pilot to the dealership Wednesday they had to order parts and I had them change the water pump and pulleys. I had them check the serpentine pulleys as well as these were not changed originally. Yes I only have 50,000 miles on my Pilot but it was at the dreaded 7 year deadline. The warble noise is pretty much gone with the OEM parts. Interesting the serpentine belt being a bando belt was not riding perfectly on the pulleys, there was actually a small
difference on one side of the pulley. I saw it myself, so I had them change that belt and pulley.
I have to say I know there is discrepancies with dealerships but , mine seems to do very well when I ask for this one specific mechanic/tech. Thanks to all of you gentlemen for your expertise time and patience in giving me the advice.

Now since I have the pulsation with my brakes my next decision is Akebono brakes and rotors or Dynamic Friction brakes and rotors.I currently have 3 month old Wagener pads and Akebono rotors but I did not do a great job of embedding the pads into the rotors.
it is a long story..
The Pilot is a heavy SUV and needs fantastic brakes and rotors. I am researching this.