Wonder where all those VW buyback cars go?

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Originally Posted By: Hounds
http://blog.caranddriver.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-vw-diesel-emissions-scandal/

Paradoxically, both the feds and the state of California would prefer that the vast majority of the "fixed" vehicles remain in or return to daily use. Why? Because, once fixed, they will be emissions compliant, and, even fixed, they get excellent fuel economy, thus resulting in fewer total emissions than many, if not most, of the vehicles that consumers might choose as replacement vehicles.

[off-topic]
you would think the same officials would use the existent traffic studies and synchronize the traffic lights and roads layout so you don't waste so much fuel idling in traffic?
But let me guess: emissions are important but also fuel TAXES?
[/off-topic]
 
I still find it interesting how all of these cars are being deemed not road worthy because of emissions, when today I was following a diesel pickup "rolling coal" for about 10 miles, and then got stuck behind a bus that belched blue smoke every time it accelerated from a stop.

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Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I still find it interesting how all of these cars are being deemed not road worthy because of emissions, when today I was following a diesel pickup "rolling coal" for about 10 miles, and then got stuck behind a bus that belched blue smoke every time it accelerated from a stop.

21.gif



And yet, people can get away for rolling coal or buses belching smoke - isn't Connecticut a OTC state that follows most of California's air quality standards? The state can do something about the bus, the brodozer rolling coal, not so much.
 
To ArcticDriver:
The Reason "America Will Never Be Great Again" (arguable point)

DRUGS-sure don't help but it's not the only reason.

SOFT BRAINS- Lots of stupid people to start with. Add parents who plop their kids in front of TVs all day long. Then add LCD (Least Common Denominator) schooling, no "hands-on" education (ask a tattooed kid with a safety pin in his face to make a birdhouse),

CONSUMERISM- Just buy, buy, buy then throw away, throw away, throw away.

NUTRITION / CONDITIONING-We're not just getting stupider--we're fatter and stupider. (except BITOGers, of course)

NOT CRITICAL ENOUGH- Empiricism (measuring things and confidently assessing their value) is all but gone.
How do you think "high performance diesels" were so easily marketed?

JUSTICE- Reserved for the wealthy. Perverted for the poor. Ex: The crooked stock broker / securities salesman can say, "Hey, I didn't know the 'product' was faulty / bogus / underfunded".

STAR DRIVEN- We worship rock stars, politicians, sports people, escapism. We hunger to kiss up to bling of any kind.

Critics might call us "decadent". It's just the progression of the above. We {on average} are growing fatter, lazier, more ignorant, more image forward.....

What did you expect?
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I still find it interesting how all of these cars are being deemed not road worthy because of emissions, when today I was following a diesel pickup "rolling coal" for about 10 miles, and then got stuck behind a bus that belched blue smoke every time it accelerated from a stop.

21.gif



And yet, people can get away for rolling coal or buses belching smoke - isn't Connecticut a OTC state that follows most of California's air quality standards? The state can do something about the bus, the brodozer rolling coal, not so much.


That is what I thought, but my friend has a tuned Chevy Duramax. He went to the emissions facility and they told him as long as his truck did not smoke at idle he was fine. His truck is heavily tuned, and it does not smoke at idle. Pretty sure he rolled coal leaving the testing facility with the flip of a switch.

The problem is to my knowledge CT does not perform visual inspections of diesel emissions stuff or computer tests to make sure the equipment is functioning. I know some states do, and eliminating a DPF on a diesel truck means big fines and having the truck impounded.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: chrisri
My bet is they will ship them to Africa. At least some. Lot of European vehicles go to Africa after use in EU.

But what crossed my mind now about the VW's emission scandal in U.S. is that OEMs are subjected to an unreasonable emissions limits (which is fine by me), yet final users are free to delete all emission devices without consequences. Double standards?

It's illegal for owners to remove or disable any emissions device in all 50 states (even areas that don't have emissions testing), and owners can and do get fined for it, although most get away with it. The problem is how do you enforce it?

How to enforce it? Simply really. You have annual MOT/ vehicle inspection /registration were technician can detect any faults with vehicle, including emission devices.
Even simple visual inspection is sufficient- vehicles with working DPF will emit zero soot/ smoke even at throttle.
 
A nice train of thought is, ok, if these vehicles get shipped to an (x)th world country, while they don't pass America's insane emissions standards, they would ultimately replace vehicles that would do a heck of a lot more damage to the environment otherwise vs. being destroyed for gov't settlement, not even a tax writeoff. This is a real soup sandwich situation no matter how you look at it. It is pure economic 'destruction' or waste of input.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I still find it interesting how all of these cars are being deemed not road worthy because of emissions, when today I was following a diesel pickup "rolling coal" for about 10 miles, and then got stuck behind a bus that belched blue smoke every time it accelerated from a stop.

21.gif



When new emissions standards are enacted it is quite cost prohibitive to make ALL vehicles manufactured prior to the legislation suddenly have to meet the new restrictions.

This is true for diesel AND also gasoline vehicles.

BTW, just because the exhaust gasses from a gasoline powered automobile are less visible than diesel exhaust, it does not mean they are benign.

Be careful what you wish for. The lawmakers might not stop at legislating those dirty diesels.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I know some states do, and eliminating a DPF on a diesel truck means big fines and having the truck impounded.

A lot of the code enforcement goes towards big rigs - especially ones that head to the ports. I haven't seen the CHP pull over a pickup for rolling coal, but the air quality management district can take action via the DMV if they do get a complaint.

Pickups over a certain weight limit are also exempt from state inspections as well.
 
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I know some states do, and eliminating a DPF on a diesel truck means big fines and having the truck impounded.

A lot of the code enforcement goes towards big rigs - especially ones that head to the ports. I haven't seen the CHP pull over a pickup for rolling coal, but the air quality management district can take action via the DMV if they do get a complaint.

Pickups over a certain weight limit are also exempt from state inspections as well.


Colorado has a new law against "rolling coal".

Its usually a kid and their immature behavior affects all of us diesel owners negatively since we see even in this thread there are many people who mistakenly think all diesels do this.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: chrisri
My bet is they will ship them to Africa. At least some. Lot of European vehicles go to Africa after use in EU.

But what crossed my mind now about the VW's emission scandal in U.S. is that OEMs are subjected to an unreasonable emissions limits (which is fine by me), yet final users are free to delete all emission devices without consequences. Double standards?

It's illegal for owners to remove or disable any emissions device in all 50 states (even areas that don't have emissions testing), and owners can and do get fined for it, although most get away with it. The problem is how do you enforce it?


.. its also illegal to go over the speed limit or text and drive.

The cars most likely go overseas where there is no EPA. Used old cars are shipped out of this country on a daily basis to other countries.
 
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I would love to see bro-dozers that roll coal get big fat tickets. I've got nothing against diesels with functioning emissions devices. I'll pass on choking on the soot. I have the same attitude toward operators that delete the cat on a gasser. What a stink.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri

How to enforce it? Simply really. You have annual MOT/ vehicle inspection /registration were technician can detect any faults with vehicle, including emission devices.
Even simple visual inspection is sufficient- vehicles with working DPF will emit zero soot/ smoke even at throttle.


Nah because OBD-II was supposed to catch problems under all driving conditions, and b/c VW figured out when its car was on a treadmill and outsmarted the test by behaving just that one time.

IDK what tuned diesels show on an OBD-II scan. The best way to get convictions IMO is with dashcams and busts for "visible emissions".
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
My bet is they will ship them to Africa. At least some. Lot of European vehicles go to Africa after use in EU.
...


And Asia and the Middle East. A lot of the high mileage SUV's traded in to dealerships in the US go as well...
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Nice. It was awful when mitsu left !



I had heard rumors that drugs and alcohol were a big problem at that plant. It's a problem in any workplace but they had more than their share. Looks like Rivian is trying to make a go of the place. Hate to see places like that closed.

I'm curious how much VW pays in logistics to ship these vehicles? This must be just one of many sites. It can't be the only one?


DRUGS.

The reason America will never be great again.


Right, because America is the only place you can get drugs. Please let me know when 'Murica was "great" and let me know definitely when it stopped being so...

Because I think we're pretty [censored] great!

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now?"
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
To ArcticDriver:
The Reason "America Will Never Be Great Again" (arguable point)

DRUGS-sure don't help but it's not the only reason.

SOFT BRAINS- Lots of stupid people to start with. Add parents who plop their kids in front of TVs all day long. Then add LCD (Least Common Denominator) schooling, no "hands-on" education (ask a tattooed kid with a safety pin in his face to make a birdhouse),

CONSUMERISM- Just buy, buy, buy then throw away, throw away, throw away.

NUTRITION / CONDITIONING-We're not just getting stupider--we're fatter and stupider. (except BITOGers, of course)

NOT CRITICAL ENOUGH- Empiricism (measuring things and confidently assessing their value) is all but gone.
How do you think "high performance diesels" were so easily marketed?

JUSTICE- Reserved for the wealthy. Perverted for the poor. Ex: The crooked stock broker / securities salesman can say, "Hey, I didn't know the 'product' was faulty / bogus / underfunded".

STAR DRIVEN- We worship rock stars, politicians, sports people, escapism. We hunger to kiss up to bling of any kind.

Critics might call us "decadent". It's just the progression of the above. We {on average} are growing fatter, lazier, more ignorant, more image forward.....

What did you expect?


When did bitog become a suburban McDonald's with old people [censored] about "those kids!"?
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Nice. It was awful when mitsu left !



I had heard rumors that drugs and alcohol were a big problem at that plant. It's a problem in any workplace but they had more than their share. Looks like Rivian is trying to make a go of the place. Hate to see places like that closed.

I'm curious how much VW pays in logistics to ship these vehicles? This must be just one of many sites. It can't be the only one?


DRUGS.

The reason America will never be great again.


Right, because America is the only place you can get drugs. Please let me know when 'Murica was "great" and let me know definitely when it stopped being so...

Because I think we're pretty [censored] great!

"Where would you rather be than right here, right now?"


Slow down Sport.

If you don't see the problem drug abuse is having in America due to your blind Nationalism and if you are so simple that you don't understand drug abuse was not part of post-WW2 American culture when America was truly great then there is little point in further discussion.

Did you happen to watch any news this week? President Trump has declared the opiod epidemic a National Emergency.
 
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

Slow down Sport.

If you don't see the problem drug abuse



Who said I "don't"?

Quote:
...is having in America due to your blind Nationalism


LOL that's a first!
laugh.gif



Quote:
///and if you are so simple that you don't understand drug abuse was not part of post-WW2 American culture when America was truly great then there is little point in further discussion.


No, the funny thing is that you don't seem to understand that drugs were not suddenly invented in 1946, and have ALWAYS been apart of America and nearly every other nation...

Quote:
Did you happen to watch any news this week? President Trump has declared the opiod epidemic a National Emergency.






Hence your "blind nationalism" post here...

LOL

BTW, it's one of the few things I agree with Trump on, actually...

Having problems doesn't make us any less "great". Only the weak give up when having problems...
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri

How to enforce it? Simply really. You have annual MOT/ vehicle inspection /registration were technician can detect any faults with vehicle, including emission devices.
Even simple visual inspection is sufficient- vehicles with working DPF will emit zero soot/ smoke even at throttle.


It's my understanding that California actually does a fairly stringent visual inspection in addition to using a tailpipe sniffer or other quantitative methods as part of emissions inspections-or at least on cars for which emissions testing apply(I think 1974 is the cut-off year).

There are threads on the MG forum that deal with passing CA smog checks, as some emissions parts are are no longer available. The smog pump is a big one, and there are folks who run it with a hollow body as they can't get a replacement for a seized one. One common trick is to lean the car out pretty dramatically for the test to get CO and VOCs down(and hopefully you have a functioning EGR valve, which is also tied into the AIR system, to help keep NOx down).

One of the other issues is that the catalytic converter must be within 3" of the manufacturer location. CA-compliant cats are expensive and not very good, so I know of more than one person who runs a straight pipe through their factory cat and then puts the "real" one under the car(the factory location is right under the carburetor, a bad place if the carb diaphragm tears and it decides to start puking gas out as sometimes happens).

Of course, even doing common modifications like adjusting the timing curve in the distributor are technically illegal. Once again, I'm going to refer specifically to MGs because that's what I know. In any case, the go-to guy for Lucas distributors told me that the late cars have about 20º of mechanical advance at the cam(40º at the crank) plus a 15º vacuum can. With the base timing at 15º, you get 55º total advance at low load, high speed cruising and 70º under high speed and heavy loads. Advancing the timing that much gives the gas more time to burn which should theoretically lower emissions, but it can lead to pinging and overall poor performance. My car has the '63-67 distributor curve which, among other things, gives 10º of mechanical at the cam(20º crank) and is set to 32º maximum mechanical advance(vacuum disconnected). This is a "sweet spot" for the engine. In any case, replicating the advance of an earlier engine would be tampering with emissions equipment, but I don't see the average inspector mapping the timing or even checking the maximum advance(the latter is easy enough to do with a dial back light).

One last thing-I remember someone talking about getting "chatty" with the inspector and the inspector suddenly clamming up and directing the guy inside to wait. The inspector took about 45 minutes on the car. Apparently it's not uncommon for CARB(California Air Resource Board) to send guys out with older cars that have a minor issue, then cite the inspectors for missing it. They often are "chatty" apparently, and the inspector gave the car extra scrutiny because there "had to be something wrong." The car passed perfectly, but there again apparently the guys doing this really DO take the visual inspection seriously.
 
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