New car purchase (VW or Subaru) - where to start?

Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
8,563
Location
FL, USA
The DSG is a little tricky to learn from a stop, but otherwise under normal driving the shifts are fast and would be imperceptible were it not for the change in engine tone or the tach. I absolutely love it.
I drove a Passat with the 3.6 / DSG a few times and thought it was one of the best behaved transmissions I've ever had interaction with. I had no issues "learning" how to drive it. It was fool proof in my experience. Lighting fast, imperceivable shifts. Loved it.
 
Joined
Jun 29, 2015
Messages
68
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Congratulations on your new VW. I'm kind of in the same boat. Been a Jap and Korean owner for ever and just bought a new Polo GTI (first serious Euro car ever). Did heaps of research and really happy to know the EA888 G3 is an evolution of previous learnings. I'm very happy so far!
 

dgunay

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Joined
Dec 5, 2014
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Toronto
If you don't need AWD then I don't think Subaru wins in too many categories.

Well I live 50 km North of Toronto and I've always driven FWD cars with proper snow tires, and never got stuck.

AWD is nice to have if you don't have too much experience in the snow or if you just have one car, but I already have one so AWD vehicle so it was not my priority for the second car.

AWD is not a must, unless you drive on deep snow all the time, maybe in AB, SK or Northern Provinces, but not in Southern Ontario.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
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1,544
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open range
Don't forget you pay twice (at least) for AWD. When you pay for your car and every time when you fill up due to added friction and added weight. That said, an AWD car with the same engine will be slower, not from a stand still but slower in gear, that's why AWD vehicles often come with shorter gearing. AWD will still handle different. While traction is better handling will feel less nimble. AWD feels heavier just because it is heavier. I always prefered the GTI feel over the R's not to mention the heavy Mk5 R32 with its heavy iron block VR6 and AWD. A Lotus Elise or a Mini Cooper is hard to imagine with AWD.
Last not least, dgunay's GLI is supposed to come with the BorgWarner made VAQ/FXD LSD just like the GTI Performance and Clubsport or the current Focus ST, or, probably not BW made, but same working principle: BMW M4, M5, virtually all contemporary Ferraris, some Porsches etc.. While not providing AWD traction VAQ still offers an improvement over both FWD and RWD traction with open diff that is clearly noticeable on snow. Don't forget most AWD system aren't actually true ALL wheel drive systems but just "both axle drive" systems since they use to lack LSDs. In a worst case scenario (µ split) just two wheels are actually driven - one on front and one on rear. That's why more advanced AWD systems come with LSDs or even full locking diffs. Or active torque vectoring diff like the Focus RS, Tiguan R, the Mk8 Golf R or the new RS3.
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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
10,346
Location
Ontario, Canada
Well I live 50 km North of Toronto and I've always driven FWD cars with proper snow tires, and never got stuck.

AWD is nice to have if you don't have too much experience in the snow or if you just have one car, but I already have one so AWD vehicle so it was not my priority for the second car.

AWD is not a must, unless you drive on deep snow all the time, maybe in AB, SK or Northern Provinces, but not in Southern Ontario.
Yep, we're doing some unplowed logging roads to go ice fishing and our driveway and land is all hills so having an AWD vehicle is "required" for us in southern ontario, but for the second one fwd with snows is fine.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
10,346
Location
Ontario, Canada
Don't forget you pay twice (at least) for AWD. When you pay for your car and every time when you fill up due to added friction and added weight. That said, an AWD car with the same engine will be slower, not from a stand still but slower in gear, that's why AWD vehicles often come with shorter gearing. AWD will still handle different. While traction is better handling will feel less nimble. AWD feels heavier just because it is heavier. I always prefered the GTI feel over the R's not to mention the heavy Mk5 R32 with its heavy iron block VR6 and AWD. A Lotus Elise or a Mini Cooper is hard to imagine with AWD.
Last not least, dgunay's GLI is supposed to come with the BorgWarner made VAQ/FXD LSD just like the GTI Performance and Clubsport or the current Focus ST, or, probably not BW made, but same working principle: BMW M4, M5, virtually all contemporary Ferraris, some Porsches etc.. While not providing AWD traction VAQ still offers an improvement over both FWD and RWD traction with open diff that is clearly noticeable on snow. Don't forget most AWD system aren't actually true ALL wheel drive systems but just "both axle drive" systems since they use to lack LSDs. In a worst case scenario (µ split) just two wheels are actually driven - one on front and one on rear. That's why more advanced AWD systems come with LSDs or even full locking diffs. Or active torque vectoring diff like the Focus RS, Tiguan R, the Mk8 Golf R or the new RS3.
.
The subaru system on the Outback is really 4wd on demand, just a clutch pack locking front and rear axles together, although it seems quite "tight" with the rears kicking in very quickly. We had an 01 and 06 CRV in the family and it was comical in the snow, how they could spin up the front wheels in a corner for a second and then the backs would hammer in sending you into a full AWD drift, although I liked honda's KISS no electronics system and I'm sure the new ones are faster to react. The subaru system is too fast plus stability control jumps in to keep you from going full Colin McRae.
Interestingly the 2015 Outback was pretty decent around the Figure 8 course as I think the weight distribution isn't terrible.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/15-non-sporty-family-cars/
Quote
A 2015 Subaru Outback we tested with a 2.5-liter four-cylinder went around our figure eight in 26.3 seconds at 0.63 g (avg). What else completed our figure eight in 26.3 seconds? A 2004 Cadillac CTS-V, a 2013 Subaru BRZ, a 2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra (yes, the Terminator), and a 2015 Mini Cooper S Hardtop four-door. Those all posted a higher average g number, but from start to finish, the numbers don't lie. The Outback is mighty capable.

The main reason we got the Outback is it's a mid sized car based SUV/wagon, can tow a bit, but still get better mileage than most of the compact car based SUV's. Its kind of funny when you see our cars parked together, that I can get the same mileage out of both our cars on 80km/h roads(~35mpg) and the subaru is better on 100km/h roads. The Subaru is 1000lbs heavier, much wider and taller.
 
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
4,483
Location
Parts Unknown
Don't forget you pay twice (at least) for AWD. When you pay for your car and every time when you fill up due to added friction and added weight. That said, an AWD car with the same engine will be slower, not from a stand still but slower in gear, that's why AWD vehicles often come with shorter gearing. AWD will still handle different. While traction is better handling will feel less nimble. AWD feels heavier just because it is heavier. I always prefered the GTI feel over the R's not to mention the heavy Mk5 R32 with its heavy iron block VR6 and AWD. A Lotus Elise or a Mini Cooper is hard to imagine with AWD.
Last not least, dgunay's GLI is supposed to come with the BorgWarner made VAQ/FXD LSD just like the GTI Performance and Clubsport or the current Focus ST, or, probably not BW made, but same working principle: BMW M4, M5, virtually all contemporary Ferraris, some Porsches etc.. While not providing AWD traction VAQ still offers an improvement over both FWD and RWD traction with open diff that is clearly noticeable on snow. Don't forget most AWD system aren't actually true ALL wheel drive systems but just "both axle drive" systems since they use to lack LSDs. In a worst case scenario (µ split) just two wheels are actually driven - one on front and one on rear. That's why more advanced AWD systems come with LSDs or even full locking diffs. Or active torque vectoring diff like the Focus RS, Tiguan R, the Mk8 Golf R or the new RS3.
.
Out here in Commie-Fornia... when it comes to winter driving, 2WD are for peasants and their snow chains/cab;es in the very common R2 chain control condition, regardless if they have a 3PMSF tire or not.

Depositphotos_156091792_l-2015.jpg



I'll take the penalties of AWD not to put on snow chains at a chain control (but still have 3PMSF tires) in a R2 condition. R3 (chains on all) are very rare
 

dgunay

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Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
782
Location
Toronto
Yep, we're doing some unplowed logging roads to go ice fishing and our driveway and land is all hills so having an AWD vehicle is "required" for us in southern ontario, but for the second one fwd with snows is fine.
Correct. To me AWD is more useful for a drifting/donut session on walmart parking lot when it snows rather than a weekend adventure, as I never take my cars off road :D
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
14,730
Location
Colorado Springs
Let's not forget that AWD is capable as tires are, like all drives.
FWD with snow tires is a much better vehicle than any AWD with all-season tires. Subaru being the number 1 vehicle in the ditch in CO when it snows is proof of that. When I see any Subaru, JEEP etc. in the review mirror in slippery conditions, it is time to run away.
 

dgunay

Thread starter
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
782
Location
Toronto
Hey guys,

I took the delivery 3 days ago, just had a chance to post as it's been crazy busy at work. I didn't even have a chance to drive that much, only put 25 miles since I got it. I am super glad that I picked this color, I love how it looks (personal opinion).

What I found that US-Spec GLI's don't get black rims/mirrors/roof standard, as well as missing some features like heated rear seats even with the top trim - not sure why but Canadian version seems like a more well-rounded package as everything you see comes standard.

Anyways, thanks again for all the input and help!

Photo 2021-09-05, 15 06 44.jpg
 
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CKN

Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
8,219
Location
Utah
Don't forget you pay twice (at least) for AWD. When you pay for your car and every time when you fill up due to added friction and added weight. That said, an AWD car with the same engine will be slower, not from a stand still but slower in gear, that's why AWD vehicles often come with shorter gearing. AWD will still handle different. While traction is better handling will feel less nimble. AWD feels heavier just because it is heavier. I always prefered the GTI feel over the R's not to mention the heavy Mk5 R32 with its heavy iron block VR6 and AWD. A Lotus Elise or a Mini Cooper is hard to imagine with AWD.
Last not least, dgunay's GLI is supposed to come with the BorgWarner made VAQ/FXD LSD just like the GTI Performance and Clubsport or the current Focus ST, or, probably not BW made, but same working principle: BMW M4, M5, virtually all contemporary Ferraris, some Porsches etc.. While not providing AWD traction VAQ still offers an improvement over both FWD and RWD traction with open diff that is clearly noticeable on snow. Don't forget most AWD system aren't actually true ALL wheel drive systems but just "both axle drive" systems since they use to lack LSDs. In a worst case scenario (µ split) just two wheels are actually driven - one on front and one on rear. That's why more advanced AWD systems come with LSDs or even full locking diffs. Or active torque vectoring diff like the Focus RS, Tiguan R, the Mk8 Golf R or the new RS3.
.
With the vehicles listed and your location "open range" do you need AWD or 4WD? Maybe you work for the CIA and you must keep your location "secret".
 
Joined
May 25, 2005
Messages
1,981
Location
USA
I worked for a VW dealership for a while, and they have the technology down. However if you really want a dsg unless the transmission fluid has changed it was 40k miles for intervals.
 
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