GM Goes All In on EVs: Pickups & SUVs

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https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rst-us-plant-to-build-only-electric-cars
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...On Monday, GM announced the U.S. will get another all-EV plant. The company will spend $2.2 billion to convert its existing Detroit-Hamtramck plant to build only battery-electric vehicles. GM said that full employment at the plant is projected at 2,200 jobs—up from just 900 at the plant today. ...What will those vehicles be? GM said Hamtramck will ultimately produce a "variety of all-electric trucks and SUVs." While the company didn't specify underlying platforms, the plant is being retooled for multiple vehicles built on GM's "BEV3" electric-vehicle architecture. Specifically, GM said one of the new EVs built in the plant will be an "electric pickup truck" scheduled to launch late in 2021. It added that the recently announced Cruise Origin self-driving shuttle vehicle will be built in Hamtramck "soon after" the EV pickup truck's debut. The electric pickup may be a GMC Hummer, turning the well-known but polarizing brand derived from military trucks into a model line under GM's luxury-truck label GMC. Little else is known about the truck—and the rumored revival of Hummer could be wrong—but watch for little bits of information to dribble out at regular intervals over the next 18 months. ...GM's announcement couches Hamtramck as the company's first all-EV plant. It certainly doesn't mention Tesla, and it also ignores another company whose own plant dedicated to electric vehicles will open around the same time as GM's. That would be Rivian, the quiet startup that spent nine years in stealth mode before debuting its full-size R1T electric pickup truck and R1S electric SUV in fall 2018. Rivian will soon announce how much the R1T and R1S will cost and claims that tens of thousands of people have put down deposits of $1,000 to get in line for its electric trucks, which are expected to be produced in the second half of next year. They will be built at the Normal, Illinois, assembly plant the electric-truck maker bought from Mitsubishi several years ago.
 
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The market drives demand, not production. No matter how hard EVs are pushed, people will vote with their wallets. At some point I think the tech will reach the point where demand catches up to where environmentalists would like to see it, but I don't think we have reached that point yet. It will happen in my lifetime, if I live to a ripe older age.
 
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Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone noticed the sudden push on Electric vehicles ,veganism and banning air transportation to save the Earth?
No.
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone noticed the sudden push on Electric vehicles ,veganism and banning air transportation to save the Earth?
No.
Yes
 
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Yep-Yep-Yep! The earth is in the early stages of global warming at an alarming rate. It was very slow and gradual for a couple decades. But not anymore. Full steam ahead. Governments are finally showing some concern, with combative plans starting to take place. Can they get the warming stopped?..... No. Accomplishing that will take major wars - like half of the earth's population must fall victim first.
Wait, you didn't just make a global warming post, did you? Isn't that topic prohibited?
 
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Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone noticed the sudden push on Electric vehicles ,veganism and banning air transportation to save the Earth?
Push on EVs? Well, I've noticed demand. I bought one. Veganism? I am not sure what that is, but I have heard of it. For example, our Model 3 has "Vegan leather" seats. Banning air transportation? Nope. I am flying to San Diego this Saturday for $49 each way. But i can tell you Mother Earth does not need us, we need Mother Earth.
 
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Originally Posted by Dinoburner
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone noticed the sudden push on Electric vehicles ,veganism and banning air transportation to save the Earth?
No.
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by CT8
Has anyone noticed the sudden push on Electric vehicles ,veganism and banning air transportation to save the Earth?
No.
Yes
Yep.... Funny how these people follow a person who flies around in a private jet that uses more fuel in one cross country trip back and forth than the average American uses in a entire year... And that champion has a huge home that is not needed or necessary either...
 

Ws6

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Originally Posted by ArrestMeRedZ
The market drives demand, not production. No matter how hard EVs are pushed, people will vote with their wallets. At some point I think the tech will reach the point where demand catches up to where environmentalists would like to see it, but I don't think we have reached that point yet. It will happen in my lifetime, if I live to a ripe older age.
Never. It's a sliding goal based on politics, not actual environmental concern, etc.
 
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Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of electric trucks-wouldn't the battery packs be heavy enough to cut WAY back on payload rating?
You already know that the average truck buyer uses his machine no harder than your wife does her Xb. For most buyers, the pickup is more of a fashion statement than a tool. Give 'em 300 miles range, a real back seat and four real doors and they won't care about the 900 lbs payload capacity. If GM really follows through on this, then startups like Rivian are already DOA and even Tesla will take a serious hit. GM has always been rife with new tech ideas, most of which never pass the idea stage. If this new generation of GM electric trucks really does come to fruition I think we'll then see a major move to EVs throughout the average uniformed population. Don't forget that even these days GM retains a level of market-push power that even Tesla lacks.
 
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It's all about conservation. Design a car to go 10k on oil changes yet that car burns 5qts in that time frame.
 
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Will this be another tax payer bail out edition when GM fails Again ???? Round 2
 
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Originally Posted by fdcg27
[quote=bullwinkle] If GM really follows through on this, then startups like Rivian are already DOA and even Tesla will take a serious hit.
I agree on your Tesla observation, but disagree about Rivian. Ford is invested in Rivian as is one other big player I can't recall at the moment. If tesla doesn't ditch the current design for their pickup truck, the Rivian truck will outsell Cybertruck 10 to 1, or more. Rivian looks more like the traditional pickup truck layout and styling that Americans are in love with.
 
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Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Originally Posted by fdcg27
[quote=bullwinkle] If GM really follows through on this, then startups like Rivian are already DOA and even Tesla will take a serious hit.
I agree on your Tesla observation, but disagree about Rivian. Ford is invested in Rivian as is one other big player I can't recall at the moment. If tesla doesn't ditch the current design for their pickup truck, the Rivian truck will outsell Cybertruck 10 to 1, or more. Rivian looks more like the traditional pickup truck layout and styling that Americans are in love with.
One point that I think does matter is that GM does have considerable push marketing ability even these days. GM still has a large dealer network that can easily be incentivized to push these new EV truck models as they will. Ford's investment in Rivian is not the same as Ford being invested directly in EVs either. More like dipping their corporate toe in the water and then pulling it out if the water is too cold leaving Rivian holding the bag.
 

SubLGT

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https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1127366_evolution-11-keys-to-gm-s-electrified-future
Quote
...From 2020 through 2025, GM plans to invest more than $20 billion—more than $3 billion annually, on average—toward electric-vehicle programs. And by the middle of the decade, the company aims to sell a combined one million EVs annually in its two largest markets of the U.S. and China. "We want to put everyone in an EV, and we have what it takes to do it," CEO Mary Barra said in an opening address Wednesday at EV Day, which showed media and investors the company's dedication in setting its "all-electric future." Chemistry gets an ‘A'. The battery chemistry itself is called NMCA—cutting cobalt, increasing nickel, and adding aluminum (the ‘A') to the cathode. They're based on the latest LG Chem product line but co-developed by GM in Michigan. "The crown jewel of the Ultium system is the battery cell itself," said Adam Kwiatkowski, GM's director of advanced vehicle design. Big, big cells. The focus, according to Andy Oury, lead engineer for the battery packs, was to "let the cell be all it can be." To that, pouch cells provide a packaging and design advantage, and they'll soon provide a cost advantage. GM chose to apply large-format cells, with the widest electrode rolls in the industry—"the fewest number of the largest cells possible," as he put it—to help cut wiring and connectors within the modules. The 100-Ah cells GM is using are each the equivalent of about 20 of the 2170-format cylindrical cells Tesla uses in its Model 3 and Model Y, Oury said. Forward thinking. The battery management system is in the module. This not only allows for the possibility of future cell upgrades without fully designing the pack or other propulsion-system components, it's also "a big enabler for service in the future," allowing for the possibility of new or improved modules being replaced or upgraded. 600 miles is possible mid-decade. GM is working on the development of a lithium-metal cell that will provide about double the energy density while fitting, with an adapter, into the modules with the same form factor as the large-format pouches. GM won't be using them before 2025, but they could be used in products shortly after that. Those future products will still be using the same pack design and propulsion components as the current generation. Think of the biggest trucks as having two packs. The battery modules include cells that are stacked horizontally for low-roof vehicles or vertically for trucks and SUVs. The latter allows for 800-volt charging with a trick—treating each of the two full 12-module layers as separate packs and wiring them in series. Million-mile batteries in sight. These batteries are designed to last hundreds of thousands of miles, and heavy duty cycles in shared mobility was part of the criteria when choosing cells. A million-mile battery life is "within striking distance," according to Oury. ...There are three motors that are part of the architecture, including two permanent-magnet motors and one induction motor. All three of the motors were internally designed by GM, but they'll be built by multiple outside suppliers. Vehicles built on the Ultium building blocks will have a total output varying from 235 horsepower up to 1,000 horsepower, achieved with combinations of one, two, or three motors, from three potential motor designs: a 70-kw induction motor, a 180-kw permanent-magnet (PM) motor, and a 255-kw PM motor. There will be multiple power ratings for each motor configuration depending on the battery configuration. ...Front-drive for efficiency, double the rear-wheel drive for performance/off-road. GM says that its modular platform and drive-unit strategy is the first such plan in the industry to support front-, rear-, or all-wheel drive. One more interesting point at this time when EV platforms all seem to be preferring rear-wheel drive: Efficiency-focused models might still have all-wheel drive by using the PM motor in front with the induction motor in back—the same strategy as Tesla has employed in the Model 3, but at opposite axles. At the other end of the spectrum, the Hummer SUT, Hummer SUV, and others might use three of the 255-kw motors (two in back, one in front) for a total of 1,000 horsepower.
 
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The batteries seem great - but they always do in the brochures Looking forward to seeing... When will they actually be available How many mile per KWH the various vehicles get.. How many they can build. How fast they can be charged How many charging stations there will be, how they work when the all the stalls are full, How good the software is Wether or not they will be getting OTA capability Which models get the supercruise type features the big caddies have, What they will be priced like, How long the warrantes are, What the resale value will be like, How reliable they are... Possibly most importantly - how profitably it can make these vehicles.. Lots of questions, hoping GM can get back on top of the market. UD
 
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I remain very hopeful that battery technology will improve markedly. However, despite the daily promises of 500 or even 1000 KWh/Kg cells, and the billions invested in that tech, we are looking at a 20% near term improvement and a 40% long term increase. We can move just so many ions as there are just so many to move. Claims to the contrary should be met with a healthy skepticism. We must also keep in mind that a big part of the energy density/specific energy equation include the heavy battery cases (or pouches) , electrodes and the low voltage/high current conductors large enough to carry the necessary current. Clearly, those firms developing new batteries need significant funding. The funding seems to come when wild claims are made. Despite all the crazy claims, the very good news in all of this is improvement in manufacturing capability and the rapid decline in battery cost. Tesla's batteries cost about 1/3 what they did originally.
 
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