GM to close Ohio SUV factory Dec. 23

[Gary Allan]

Well, the entire traditional domestic industry is awash in over extension. They, like most of our economy/market, are sustained with tomorrows money being spent today.

It gets hard to define cost:benefit:harm:loss when you're privately administering a jobs program that's highly integrated into so many levels of the economy. It's very much like throwing a party ..with the bill coming due later on. No one really minded the party and wouldn't have wanted it to stop if asked.

 

[OVERKILL]

Well-put Gary. Well put. GM isn't suffering from financial colon cancer because people stopped buying SUV's. As you've indicated.. there is a LOT more to it than that.

 

[PandaBear]

Toyota was building lots of SUV and they were doing fine until recently, and now everyone is not doing well.

The problem is building SUV, the problem is relying only on SUV. Consumers can change buying habits overnight and if you are not placing your bet for insurance (flexible plants, R&D on low margin small cars, union contracts that are flexible on volume) during the good times, death is inevitable in the when bad time comes.

IMO another biggest problem of American big 3 is having head quarters, R&D, manufacturing, quality control in the salt belt. You want to build a good car, you build it where people drive it for decades, not within a decade due to salt and rust. People there couldn't understand a car lasting more than 15 years because to them, rust takes its toll after 5 years.

 

[demarpaint]

I see it this way. The writing was on the wall a long time ago, no one took the time to read it. Gas prices hurt the American Auto Maker back in the 70's. So they turned out a few economy cars that were garbage, and continued building Land Yachts. Amazingly they survived, until now when the [censored] really hit the fan. They allowed Toyota, Honda, and others who read the writing big market share. Lets not forget the lack in American quality for a long time too. The Unions didn't help either, and made it very hard for the US automaker to compete, (sorry to offend anyone in a union, this is my opinion and how I see it). They do have a lot of good benefits to them, but they didn't help the big 3.

Now the entire industry is going to hurt, every automaker, because the average American with money in the market is [censored] himself, worrying. Yes people are still making money in the markets, since in theory its a zero sum game, and for every winnner there's a loser, but the average Joe is a loser this time! This slow down will really sort everything out, and the strong will survive.

What I think we will see is a lot of people fixing up old cars snd trying to extend their lives until they can see clearly. I have a feeling this is going to last years, and the $700,000,000,000 bail out is going to look like beer money when this is over.

And yes, I think its every American's right to drive what ever he/she wants as long as they can afford to drive it.

Again JMO,
Frank D

 

[steve20]

Modern muscle cars and 18MPG?????
the 02 Corvette gets 19 in city driving and 29 on the highway at 70mph. With 405 hp on tap, what more could you ask for? The 95 Corvette gets the same fuel mileage, but alas, has only 340 hp.
I rarely visit a gas station with them

 

[firemachine69]

You have to baby it to get it. And really, with that much power on tap, who could resist?

F.Y.I. I had the G8 GT as my top pick when I went car shopping, until my (ex-)girlfriend brought me to my senses.

The insurance company telling me they would absolutely in no way cover a brand new driver (her) on it may have had something to do with it too...

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
So these SUVs are just not gonna be made anymore? What's replacing them?

Cars???

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: exranger06
So these SUVs are just not gonna be made anymore? What's replacing them?

Cars???


Cars, sports cars, and SUV's only less of them and probably more costly. Supply and demand will dictate, only now everyone is scrambling and trying to figure out *** to do to survive.

Frank D

 

[John_K]

Quote:
The Unions didn't help either, and made it very hard for the US automaker to compete, (sorry to offend anyone in a union, this is my opinion and how I see it). They do have a lot of good benefits to them, but they didn't help the big 3.


My deceased parents were UAW and my Dad used to say the unions were a good thing but they went too far. I think that sums it up.

John

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: exranger06
So these SUVs are just not gonna be made anymore? What's replacing them?

Cars???

I wasn't sure if they were gonna be replaced with smaller and/or more efficient SUVs, or if GM was getting out of that market altogether. No need to be a smart*ss [censored].

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I see it this way. The writing was on the wall a long time ago, no one took the time to read it. Gas prices hurt the American Auto Maker back in the 70's. So they turned out a few economy cars that were garbage, and continued building Land Yachts. Amazingly they survived, until now when the [censored] really hit the fan. They allowed Toyota, Honda, and others who read the writing big market share . . .

And yes, I think its every American's right to drive what ever he/she wants as long as they can afford to drive it.

Again JMO,
Frank D


I agree with you 100 percent. I remember some of the [censored] from the 70's. Anyone here ever drive a Pinto, a Chevy Vega, or a Chevy Chevette? Unfortunately I did!

Even today in SOME respects the big 3 are still putting out garbage. I have a 2005 Chevy Trailblazer - that I need to change the water pump on. I bought it new - current mileage? 47K miles. From what a LOT of people are saying at various forums this is about right. 50K miles (give or take a few thousand) for a water pump?
Funny thing is - when most people replace them, they never have to replace them again. Hmmmm - why is that do you suppose? (Rhetorical question).

Don't get me started on the interior or exterior build quality of my SUV either. Things rattle, come loose or just weren't put together very well to start with.
Also can you say " Major depreciation boys and girls"?

And I agree with the others - drive what you want or what best suits you. I'm a big guy. 6'5" and a few too many pounds! Should I go buy a Kia econobox? I could probably drive it if I took the front seat out and sat in the back seat! LOL!

But we are kind of off the track here. The original post was about GM closing the Ohio plant. I think that is sad and I feel for all those people losing their jobs, but I am not at all surprised.
Like Joel said this was rumored to be happening for quite a while. At Trailvoy.com we have been discussing this for at least the last couple of years.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, let's not forget what gave the Asians the advantage. How many models did Honda have back in the 70's?? TWO. The Civic and the Accord. How hard is it to do two models very well? Where have you got to go in divisions of market share ..especially when there was no legit competition? Meanwhile the BIG 3 were offering the same chassis over several trim levels and they all were throw away items. Even when manufacturing and quality control reduced the "process variable" in assembly, they still were passe and "old news" very quickly.

Now that the Asians have a much more diverse line up they too are suffering the whims of the market.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: exranger06
So these SUVs are just not gonna be made anymore? What's replacing them?

Cars???

I wasn't sure if they were gonna be replaced with smaller and/or more efficient SUVs, or if GM was getting out of that market altogether. No need to be a smart*ss [censored].


No need to be a member here if you don't have, or can't grow, a sense of humor. Chill or be gone -- you decide, I'll be happy to execute...

 

[Max_Wander]

all i can say is "hold tight"

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
if you don't have, or can't grow, a sense of humor.


Yep. If you can't have fun ...

 

[RH+G]

Everybody says its because the Big 3 were only building big SUVs. The economy is down. People are not buying cars at the same rate they were before., Toyota, Honda, Nissan are all down. The plant closing is a shame but GM cant afford to keep all their US plants open even if they were all building Cobalts and Volts.

 

[kelpie]

It's a shame. I never had a problem with GM quality, but they did put all their eggs in one basket with the trucks and SUV's. I hope they are successful with the Volt electric car, but knowing their luck gas prices will come back down.

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: kelpie
It's a shame. I never had a problem with GM quality, but they did put all their eggs in one basket with the trucks and SUV's.


Reality check time...

GM isn't the only one of the big 3 that put all of their eggs in one basket with the trucks and SUVs. They ALL did.

One doesn't have to look any further than the F150 to realize this.

 

[OVERKILL]

Or the Dodge RAM. All three have invested massive amounts of money into trucks.

 

[bretfraz]

Or the Toyota Tundra. Or the Toyota Sequoia. Or the Nissan Titan. Or the Nissan Armada. Or the Honda Pilot. Or the Honda Ridgeline.

They all invested the money in these vehicles because the market share was there and the per unit profit was massive. When the market disappeared, so did the sales and the profits. It's affected every brand that sells large vehicles.