wife got a wild hair, wants a RAV4?!?

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
Her 2016 is the previous gen. and if you pay attention to the "batting average" of the new one in reviews against RAV4 you'd both be well-advised to at least try the new CR-V, it's kicking butt and taking names. The seats are new and the CVT has been updated.


At least they don't make it in Mexico any longer unlike the HRV and Fit(Hencho en Mexico) which are still assembled there. The Rav gets higher rankings in the publications I read which doesn't include garbage C&R.

I drove a 39k msrp Pilot and couldn't believe the price they were asking for it. It seemed so cheap. Hopefully the new gen CRV is better but I doubt it. Even the engine noise at idle sounded like there was something wrong with it. Sad.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
And yet I'd probably never buy a RAV4.
Car and Driver summed it up about the RAV4 (and Toyotas in general) weakness: "With lifeless, vague steering and a soft suspension, the RAV4 isn’t much fun to drive, even for a small crossover." Also, Toyota styling is a problem. Ugly stuff. https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/rav4

Indeed the RAV4 Hybrid's AWD set-up is good, yet a Honda CRV gets a combined EPA rating of 29 MPG to the Hybrid RAV4's 32 MPG, not a lot of difference overall. ...
The RAV4 Hyb would really only give you an MPG advantage in mostly-city driving.

The Honda CRV nearly matches Toyota's famous reliability in a vehicle that works better. Ditto Mazda CX5. I'd also recommend an '18 Equinox (GKN-brand AWD, 2.0T, 9-speed version) over a RAV4. I lease an '18 Equinox 1.5T AWD now, and it handles great, MPG great, acceleration is the only weak point.

And Kia/Hyundai has the long warranties, so if you wanted to keep one forever, get one of those.

Originally Posted By: Trav
Go with a 2019 RAV4 if you can wait, significant updates and looks really good imo. https://www.tflcar.com/2018/03/2019-toyota-rav4-a-new-look/

....and Toyota manages to make the 2019 even uglier.....


Toyota sold over 400,000 Rav4s in 2017. Most of any vehicle sold except for full size pick=ups from the big 3.

Rav4 vs Equinox? Maybe if you're leasing but if you're buying the Rav4 is going to last a lot longer.

 

[MCompact]

My wife wants another small SUV; when we turn in the i3 she will probably end up with either a CX-3 Grand Touring or maybe a Renegade Trailhawk.

 

[RN89]

Based off your current fleet in your sig, you’re used to driving boring appliances. Might as well make your wife happy

 

[PeterPolyol]

Yeah they're going to end up with the Toyota for sure

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
IMO the best small SUV is the Jeep Cherokee. My wife traded her 2012 Equinox on one and it rides and handles better than the old car. It gets 25 mpg average and close to 30 on a trip. Not bad for 4WD. It's had no issues and is the most American made car you can buy aside from the Wrangler.

I gotta say that I was 99% sure that I was going to buy the new Cherokee back in 2014...with the V6, it seemed to be exactly what I wanted and I thought the test drive would just be a formality.
Then I took the test drive and my heart just sank...I hated it. There is one caveat here in that I went to a dealer with very strange and difficult salesmen...they let me take the car out on my own but told me I couldn't change any of the settings on the car because I might break something...I figured it was their car and not mine and did what they asked. The car was not in "Sport" mode, so maybe it would have felt less sluggish if I had changed it to that setting. I told the guys that the car didn't feel very peppy when I got back, and one of them said it had to be better than my RAV4 and both of them laughed their heads off. I told them my Toyota had nearly 270HP and they very slowly stopped laughing as they realized I wasn't kidding...I made sure to spin the tires when I left their lot after I noticed they were both watching me drive away. How could they know so little about their competition?
I have read about a lot of issues with the Cherokee's 9 speed, but I can't say much as the CVT in my FXT has already needed a major repair (luckily under a warranty that Subaru had just extended).
I still like the looks of the Cherokees I see around, maybe if I had gone to a different dealer I would have had a better test drive and bought one...people make fun of the noses of the Cherokee and FXT online, but I like that they're distinctive.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Rav4 vs Equinox? Maybe if you're leasing but if you're buying the Rav4 is going to last a lot longer.

First, GM vehicles have always had good long-term durabiliity. Thats never been GM's problem. ... It is a relative measure. Chrysler has the worst reputation. Fiat, Jag, Alfa, some Fords have bad reputations. Toyota's initial quality has always been about the best, a short-term thing, during the first year or two of ownership.

Secondly, the 2018 Equinox is not in any way related to the 2017 model, since some people haven't heard its completely changed. No common parts held over. All new.

I am a little skeptical about the highly loaded 1.5T in the 2018 Equinox. If you can keep the turbo bearings alive, and the rings don't give out over time, this thing should last a long time. Modern tech (metallurgy, coatings, heat management) does have a way of delivering durability which shouldn't be dismissed outright though.

 

[dblshock]

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
IMO the best small SUV is the Jeep Cherokee. My wife traded her 2012 Equinox on one and it rides and handles better than the old car. It gets 25 mpg average and close to 30 on a trip. Not bad for 4WD. It's had no issues and is the most American made car you can buy aside from the Wrangler.

I gotta say that I was 99% sure that I was going to buy the new Cherokee back in 2014...with the V6, it seemed to be exactly what I wanted and I thought the test drive would just be a formality.
Then I took the test drive and my heart just sank...I hated it. There is one caveat here in that I went to a dealer with very strange and difficult salesmen...they let me take the car out on my own but told me I couldn't change any of the settings on the car because I might break something...I figured it was their car and not mine and did what they asked. The car was not in "Sport" mode, so maybe it would have felt less sluggish if I had changed it to that setting. I told the guys that the car didn't feel very peppy when I got back, and one of them said it had to be better than my RAV4 and both of them laughed their heads off. I told them my Toyota had nearly 270HP and they very slowly stopped laughing as they realized I wasn't kidding...I made sure to spin the tires when I left their lot after I noticed they were both watching me drive away. How could they know so little about their competition?
I have read about a lot of issues with the Cherokee's 9 speed, but I can't say much as the CVT in my FXT has already needed a major repair (luckily under a warranty that Subaru had just extended).
I still like the looks of the Cherokees I see around, maybe if I had gone to a different dealer I would have had a better test drive and bought one...people make fun of the noses of the Cherokee and FXT online, but I like that they're distinctive.


I rented a brand new 2016 Cherokee, busiest trans I ever drove.. whoa, like 245 shifts per city mile, I wondered if it would make it through the day.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
IMO the best small SUV is the Jeep Cherokee. My wife traded her 2012 Equinox on one and it rides and handles better than the old car. It gets 25 mpg average and close to 30 on a trip. Not bad for 4WD. It's had no issues and is the most American made car you can buy aside from the Wrangler.
No, the Cherokee's platform is from Fiat (Turin, Italy), not America. ...It is indeed assembled in Toledo though, at least that part supports your point. And its true American engineers added features to the Fiat basis. You are half right about this beast.

Jeep Renegade same situation. Italy ... ("renegade" literally means someone who deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles. See a theme here? Hard core Jeep people do.

Your comparison of the Cherokee with a '12 Equinox does appear to be consistent with the usual negative opinions of the old Equinox Theta-platform era. Latest Equinoxes don't share anything with the old Equinoxes. The new Equinoxes steer and handle very well.

That said, the Cherokee has a lot to offer. https://www.caranddriver.com/jeep/cherokee means they are getting very good these days.
Very cool features.

Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I gotta say that I was 99% sure that I was going to buy the new Cherokee back in 2014...with the V6, it seemed to be exactly what I wanted and I thought the test drive would just be a formality.
Then I took the test drive and my heart just sank...I hated it. There is one caveat here in that I went to a dealer with very strange and difficult salesmen...they let me take the car out on my own but told me I couldn't change any of the settings on the car because I might break something...I figured it was their car and not mine and did what they asked. The car was not in "Sport" mode, so maybe it would have felt less sluggish if I had changed it to that setting. I told the guys that the car didn't feel very peppy when I got back, and one of them said it had to be better than my RAV4 and both of them laughed their heads off. I told them my Toyota had nearly 270HP and they very slowly stopped laughing as they realized I wasn't kidding...I made sure to spin the tires when I left their lot after I noticed they were both watching me drive away. How could they know so little about their competition?
I have read about a lot of issues with the Cherokee's 9 speed, but I can't say much as the CVT in my FXT has already needed a major repair (luckily under a warranty that Subaru had just extended).
I still like the looks of the Cherokees I see around, maybe if I had gone to a different dealer I would have had a better test drive and bought one...people make fun of the noses of the Cherokee and FXT online, but I like that they're distinctive.


Virtus, great post. Interesting story. I had a roughly similar experience 7 months ago. I found the salesman to be a bit strange (not too bad really). They didn't know about how the AWD engagement worked, etc. The 270hp in the Toy RAV6 is famous and I'm surprised they didn't know.
Also, yes the 9-speed FCA (Fiat-Chrysler) transmission has been a sore point. It makes me wonder if the corporate chaos at FCA has affected their ability to deliver durable engineering results after the bankruptcies, bailouts, and Fiat buyouts of the past.

 

[CincyDavid]

The Jeep/ZF 9 speed transmission makes me NERVOUS...I just can't bring myself to even consider it. My bride DID mention that she thought a Wrangler could be fun, until she saw the prices. Unfortunately when I look around, all I see are boring anonymous silver, charcoal gray or black blobs, none of which stir the soul.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

Virtus, great post. Interesting story. I had a roughly similar experience 7 months ago. I found the salesman to be a bit strange (not too bad really). They didn't know about how the AWD engagement worked, etc. The 270hp in the Toy RAV6 is famous and I'm surprised they didn't know.
Also, yes the 9-speed FCA (Fiat-Chrysler) transmission has been a sore point. It makes me wonder if the corporate chaos at FCA has affected their ability to deliver durable engineering results after the bankruptcies, bailouts, and Fiat buyouts of the past.

I happened to meet a couple of people who worked at Toyota dealerships in non-work contexts not long after I bought the RAV6 and they both groaned when I mentioned my vehicle...they HATED the thing, as they saw it as stealing sales away from the Lexus RX350. They felt that the customer should not be able to get that kind of performance in a plain ol Toyota SUV...it didn't surprise me at all when the V6 got dropped as a RAV4 option. I didn't ask if they felt the same way about my wife's Avalon vs. Lexus sedans.

I read a detailed magazine review of the Cherokee before my test drive and they mentioned that they couldn't even get the car into one of the 9 speeds of that tranny (highest gear??)...I was so high on the idea of a zippy small Jeep SUV that I blew it off. I think there are a lot of great ideas in that vehicle that maybe just didn't get executed exactly right (no offense intended to present owners).

 

[MCompact]

In addition to the CX-3 and Renegade Trailhawk, my wife now has extended her search to the Tiguan and Wrangler JL. I wish we had the coin for an X3 M40i, but so it goes...

 

[dblshock]

Take your good Toyota monies to the Toyota dealer, once the shine wears off you'll be happy you did.

 

[CincyDavid]

On a whim I stopped into my local Jeep emporium yesterday...big money for Wranglers. They had a white one with sort of olive green leather, which was pretty snazzy. The deal killer, aside from too much $$, was the seats must be 6 inches higher off the ground than the ones in our CUVs and I don't think that'll be dog-friendly. Went to the Chevy store next door, had several SUVs on the floor, nobody even acknowledged me or talked to me, beyond the receptionist saying "hi". The pearl white Impala was pretty, but $40k?!? The Equinox had a weird window sticker with no pricing...something about the vehicle being shipped before pricing was set. The row of Corvettes didn't interest me, but I was surprised they burned up so much of their floor space with them.

One of these days I'll actually look at the Toyota store.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
...

One of these days I'll actually look at the Toyota store.

Another alternative in used: Toyota Venza FWD/AWD. People call it Camry Wagon, but it is actually a CUV.

 

[nthach]

If she can wait for the 2019s built on the new TGNA platform which promises better handling and the D4-S equipped Dynamic Force engine instead of the 2AR-FE, that would be a vast improvement over the old model.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
...

One of these days I'll actually look at the Toyota store.

Another alternative in used: Toyota Venza FWD/AWD. People call it Camry Wagon, but it is actually a CUV.

The Sienna was closer to a Camry wagon than the Venza. Venza is a little closer to the Lexus RX.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Originally Posted By: khittner
Originally Posted By: CincyDavid
Originally Posted By: bubbatime

She also said she thinks she wants to buy instead of lease, and drive the wheels off the thing.



Honestly, it's worked well for us...we drive low enough miles that the 12k per annum is fine, I never have to buy anything beyond oil changes, tire rotations and wiper blades and the cars are under warranty the whole time.


Well, since you’ll be spending $10K on depreciation for 36K miles, and you’ll have no asset at the end, avoiding a front brake job and a coolant flush is the least they could do. But thanks for keeping the economy humming.


It was going to depreciate anyway, according to Edmunds it would depreciate by $7500 during the first 3 years. Every new vehicle depreciates, whether it is leased or financed.

I will concede that keeping a car forever and running it until I sell it to pic-n-pull MUST be cheaper per mile, but that's not how it winds up working in my household.


It still makes sense to buy and pay down and sell in 3 years if you get a 5yr loan.

On that lease @ $272×36=9792 in payments. Depreciation at 7500 means your Cost Of Capital (interest for renting) is $2292. Thats 25% for the 36 months.

Paying cash is best, second best would be financing it at 1.99 or their best rate for 60mo max.

The lease is convenient but your Cost Of Capital is way high compared to a finance deal. There is a reason automakers are pushing leases.

Listen to your wife. She is smart!

 

[JustinH]

Pose your deal to the leasehackers on their forum.

There are some stupid cheap leases right now, but I don't see much on toyota.

I have seen some deals where you get a 3 year lease for $2500 one payment.

Or some other ones where you can get a chevy spark for virtually nothing on a 3 year lease.

The deals are mostly GM cars from what I have seen.

 

[RTexasF]

We own two RAV's both with the V-6 so we're somewhat spoiled. The only new RAV I would even consider is the 2018 Hybrid. The regular four banger just doesn't cut it but the 2019 is supposed to be in the 204 HP area. No news on the '19 Hybrid yet.

If you want practical then the RAV makes sense. If you want an enthusiast drivers car then look elsewhere.