You don't need a hybrid for that. My Metro is almost 15 years old now... the only way I'd hear the tires chirp is by running over a bird
Why Hybrids Are A Tough Sell Sales Are Falling
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You don't need a hybrid for that. My Metro is almost 15 years old now... the only way I'd hear the tires chirp is by running over a bird
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You don't need a hybrid for that. My Metro is almost 15 years old now... the only way I'd hear the tires chirp is by running over a birdbut it handles highway speeds just fine and I'm still getting just over 40 mpg. Why are these not still being produced? I guess they're not cool enough. But we have the capability.
Well, if you want to get way over 40 mpg, while also having almost as much room inside as a Camry, you'll have to go for a hybrid (Prius-II 96 cubic feet, a Camry 101, a Corolla only 90).
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Please continue to hate them so I can buy mine cheaper. Do any of you realize demand has been so #@$%! high for these cars that they are getting $7-10k over recommended retail even here at my lowly po-dunk Toyota dealer in Louisiana, far from the DiCaprios and Diaz'es? Someone's buying them somewhere.
No way, the PRIUS and CAMRY HYBRID are both selling for invoice or near invoice around here. Get yourself a $200 plane ticket to Sacramento and you can drive home in one for MUCH less.
Last time I priced, my dealer's inventory ranged from $24-30k Perhaps they are all loded examples but what drives a Prius to $30k without markup?
If I read correctly, the tailpipe test is going away. There are so few pre-OBD-II cars now that it makes little sense to test these cars.
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/rollingmeadows/news/267311,rm-emissiontest-0222107-s1.article
The normal Prius (as distinct from the Touring model) has a base MSRP of just over $22k. I just checked the Pensacola dealership on line, and their lowest priced car is showing just over $23k. They've got two cars at over $30k. The "top" one, at $30,387 is a max package car that has added to it tinted glass and a carbon fibre dash kit (yech!). To my taste, it looks like "nice" ones are going to run $25-27, depending upon whether they have nav. When you're pushing 30k with one of these, you're probably looking at a car with several pricey dealer add-ons, like the carbon fibre dash, chrome spinners, porno flicks on the MFD (
With all this talk about hybrids, diesel, milage, and greenery::
Where is the talk about light weight? Take the average 30 MPG hybrid and subtract 600 pounds, and presto, you get the milage you actually want! Weight is the enemy! or did we forget this in the fat years of the 1990s?
Where is the talk about light weight? Take the average 30 MPG hybrid and subtract 600 pounds, and presto, you get the milage you actually want! Weight is the enemy! or did we forget this in the fat years of the 1990s?
Sure, weight is always the enemy, that applies with respect to any car, hybrid or not, as the designers work to make it as efficient as they can. Beyond that, what "30 mpg hybrid" would you plan to trim by 600 lbs? Are you presuming that adding a hybrid system to a car adds 600 lbs? If so, that's simply not the case. A four-cyl auto trans Camry weighs in at ~3375 lbs, while the comparable Camry Hyb is about 300 lbs more, weighing 3680. If you go the other way, and slice 600 lbs off of a 3300 lb Camry, you suddenly find yourself in a ... Corolla. If you trim 600 lbs from a 3000 lb Prius, you suddenly find yourself with a Yaris, a much smaller car than the Prius, and one that doesn't even get as good mileage.
Sure, it's easy to talk about chopping off weight, but practically speaking, if you want to lose that much weight, you're talking about a substantial step-down in size. If you want to stay in a given size range, AND have the mileage gain at the same time, the hybrid design is a great way to go.
And people are finding out that the Prius is very reliable and an extremely low maintenance vehicle. Those things can help reduce the cost of operation a bit, just like good mileage does. It's hard to measure a cost that you don't see. We now have 5 Prius's that have passed 200k miles with no unscheduled maintenance, in fact, no problems at all. And it may disappoint many but the batteries are doing just fine.
More Prius's are on dealer lots because Toyota has ramped up production to meet demand.The average time a Prius sits on a dealer's lot till sold is under 9 days. There is no longer a 2 to 6 month wait for one, and substantial discounts below msrp are commonly available. January 2007 Prius sales were at a record high, while February 2007 Prius sales set a new record for sales, nealy twice that of a year ago. while some hybrid sales might be down, Prius sales are definitely NOT falling.
At recent congressional hearings on CAFE mpg requirements, all the big 3 automakers stated that higher MPG requirements would hurt them. Toyota stood up and said. We have no problem with higher MPG requirements. Toyota knows that the easiest way for most automakers to lower their CAFE numbers is provide hybrid cars. The easiest way for them to do that is to purchase the technology from Toyota.
Wait for the Generation 3 Prius due out later this year. 93 Mpg?
Any source to even remotely support your three claims ?
Or is this just an attempt to slam GM , Ford , Chrysler and puff toyota based on false information ?
I've got 50-60 links that paint a far different picture than your post - that in fact , GM , Ford , Chrysler , the UAW , and toyota are in rare complete agreement on the two issues discussed before this sub commitee .
Matter of fact and public record all parties concerned made sure thru their lobbyists , speech writers , PR people , ETC , and prepared testimony that they were completely in sync .
Also as a matter of fact and public record during the week before the hearing they all reviewed each others presentations , key points/talking points and prepared testimony to make sure it was a united front and message that they presented to the sub committee .
I would be happy to show you what that is if you really want to know .
Worth noting , Honda , the ever present CAFE champ in the real world was not invited to the hearing . Gee , I WONDER WHY toyota was and Honda wasn't . Careful , its most likely a multipart answer .
What do you guys do - just make this stuff up?
Weight can be dealt with by using more aluminum and stronger steels(commonly now used as reinforcements to cheap heavy weaker steels).
A diesel as an option isn't being forced on anyone. Thats why its called an OPTION. Options are NOT rammed down anyones throat. Quit jumping to wrong conclusions. But the option needs to be made available for those that want it. I burn 1000 gallons of gas a year. If my vehicles were diesel, I would burn only 500 gallons of fuel. Thats less fuel that needs to be welled, imported, and refined.
Patents should be treated the way MY LAND and home can be treated. EMIMENT DOMAIN should be available against patents! Patents are getting pretty wordy and now everything has a patent. It is an abused system.
FFV is something I would force, just like rear defrosters, passenger door side mirrors, A/C, stereos, seatbelts, airbags, ABS, TCS, VCS, and other things on your car that aren't OPTIONS ANYMORE. Plus, cost of FFV is minimal. And, when a component is made for FFV, its designed with better seal integrity, better anti-corrosion properties, and better wearing parts that deal with low lubricity alcohol. I would have no problem paying for longer lasting fuel systems. Changing fuel pumps, injectors, lines, hoses, gas tanks..... is a PITA. Also, FFV engines have components designed for low lubricity fuel. Better part formulas and/or tighter tolerances are typically used on componenets directly affected by the fuel like valves, valve seats, pistons, rings..... FFVs running on gas could last longer then their gas only counterparts. I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a longer lasting vehicle since no E85 is sold around here.
And, since hybrids get a tax break, what about an equivalent tax break for FFV, aluminum, or high strength boron steels to offset the cost increse that noone wants to pay?
I hear Kia is coming out with a hybrid. And, the vehicle does NOT weigh more then its counterpart. Hows that possible?
There is no need to downsize to create lighter vehicles. There is no need to add weight when converting to hybrid.
I also guess that everyone has already forgotten about all those cars at autoshows every year. Remember Ford's aluminum intensive concept Taurus that weighed only 2000-lbs?
The market will change from bloated truck suvs bragging power when gas keeps getting more and more expensive. It might take 4, 5, 6, or 7 dollars a gallon before we wake up.
A diesel as an option isn't being forced on anyone. Thats why its called an OPTION. Options are NOT rammed down anyones throat. Quit jumping to wrong conclusions. But the option needs to be made available for those that want it. I burn 1000 gallons of gas a year. If my vehicles were diesel, I would burn only 500 gallons of fuel. Thats less fuel that needs to be welled, imported, and refined.
Patents should be treated the way MY LAND and home can be treated. EMIMENT DOMAIN should be available against patents! Patents are getting pretty wordy and now everything has a patent. It is an abused system.
FFV is something I would force, just like rear defrosters, passenger door side mirrors, A/C, stereos, seatbelts, airbags, ABS, TCS, VCS, and other things on your car that aren't OPTIONS ANYMORE. Plus, cost of FFV is minimal. And, when a component is made for FFV, its designed with better seal integrity, better anti-corrosion properties, and better wearing parts that deal with low lubricity alcohol. I would have no problem paying for longer lasting fuel systems. Changing fuel pumps, injectors, lines, hoses, gas tanks..... is a PITA. Also, FFV engines have components designed for low lubricity fuel. Better part formulas and/or tighter tolerances are typically used on componenets directly affected by the fuel like valves, valve seats, pistons, rings..... FFVs running on gas could last longer then their gas only counterparts. I wouldn't mind paying a little more for a longer lasting vehicle since no E85 is sold around here.
And, since hybrids get a tax break, what about an equivalent tax break for FFV, aluminum, or high strength boron steels to offset the cost increse that noone wants to pay?
I hear Kia is coming out with a hybrid. And, the vehicle does NOT weigh more then its counterpart. Hows that possible?
There is no need to downsize to create lighter vehicles. There is no need to add weight when converting to hybrid.
I also guess that everyone has already forgotten about all those cars at autoshows every year. Remember Ford's aluminum intensive concept Taurus that weighed only 2000-lbs?
The market will change from bloated truck suvs bragging power when gas keeps getting more and more expensive. It might take 4, 5, 6, or 7 dollars a gallon before we wake up.
The wife told me today that she's narrowed her new car search down to the Miata and the Prius. I know she'd never be happy with the Miata since there isn't enough room to hold all her shopping items...
But I finally got around to reading this thread. I don't dislike the idea of a hybrid in the family since I already have a truck and a hotrod. I won't be deprived in any way. Having a hybrid might even be fun. Dunno. Have to wait and see.
But I have a comment about the conversation on which/what/why of the different technologies for our petroleum problem.
They are all good. They will all help. The solution is mulitiple solutions. But, we are a nation of people always looking for the easy button for all our problems.
We are in our pickle not because of a fuel shortage, but of a refining shortage. We are paying high prices not because of scarcity, but because OPEC wants a lot of money.
New refineries, new nuke power plants, open up Alaska and offshore to drilling, PLUS all the other stuff mentioned above. Then we will be truly free of the terrorists (they will have no funding) and the whims of greedy oil sheiks.
All the rest is just details...
$.02
But I finally got around to reading this thread. I don't dislike the idea of a hybrid in the family since I already have a truck and a hotrod. I won't be deprived in any way. Having a hybrid might even be fun. Dunno. Have to wait and see.
But I have a comment about the conversation on which/what/why of the different technologies for our petroleum problem.
They are all good. They will all help. The solution is mulitiple solutions. But, we are a nation of people always looking for the easy button for all our problems.
We are in our pickle not because of a fuel shortage, but of a refining shortage. We are paying high prices not because of scarcity, but because OPEC wants a lot of money.
New refineries, new nuke power plants, open up Alaska and offshore to drilling, PLUS all the other stuff mentioned above. Then we will be truly free of the terrorists (they will have no funding) and the whims of greedy oil sheiks.
All the rest is just details...
$.02
I'd like to see more diesel options out there, but if every manufacturer had to go through all the work to provide a diesel option on every vehicle, they'd be eating a lot of costs on the ones that don't sell well. Those costs will get passed to the consumer.
I'm a free-market advocate on most energy issues. I'd just like to see a level playing field for all technology, with no subsidies and no tax breaks. The energy it takes to create something often exceeds the energy it takes to use it, and that will be reflected in the cost.
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