Why Hybrids Are A Tough Sell Sales Are Falling

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From BusinessWeek.com - Autos - under hybrids .

News & Features March 8, 2007



Why Hybrids Are Such a Hard Sell


by David Welch


Despite their growing popularity, they still haven't crossed over to the mainstream. Many buyers simply aren't willing to pay the premium ....



Given all the buzz ( hype about hybrids? )
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about hybrids, not to mention the greening of the citizenry,
you'd think they would be easy to sell.
They're not. After growing nicely through much of 2006, hybrid sales began to slow early this year.
The gasoline-electric vehicles now make up 1.8% of all vehicle sales, says Edmunds.com, down from a peak of 2.1% in October .
( Hmmmm ......... 14.286% sales decline ....... steady trend for 4 months ....... maybe its time ? ..........
SHUT HER DOWN OLLIE - SHE'S PUMPING MUD ! )


One major reason is that hybrids typically cost $3,000-plus more than conventional cars.
As a result, automakers in recent weeks have been slashing prices.
Less than a year ago, Toyota dealers got full price for the Prius.
Now you can immediately lease one for a slim $219 a month. Ford Motor Co. (F)
is also cutting the price of the latest version of its Escape hybrid.
In fact, in February ( 2007 ), carmakers spent an spent an average of $1,500 on incentives per hybrid, says Edmunds—
triple what they laid out in January ( 2007 ).



Making matters worse, just as hybrid sales start slowing, automakers are gearing up to launch a slew of new models. ( UH OH )
At least 30 hybrids will hit the market in the next 20 months.
That will bring the number to more than 40, up from 12 today, says Boston research firm Global Insight.
"Now that the automakers have tapped the early adopters, they're going after the mass market," says Jesse Toprak, an Edmunds analyst.
"For consumers, the answer is often no."
( Call my broker --- hasn't toyota with a dearth of conventional IC , Fuel Cell , AND advanced AT technology bet the farm on this ? )

Tailing Off
A few years ago, automakers decided to put hybrid technology in regular models.
The hope was to move beyond the geek chic of the Prius and win over everyone else.
Hybrid would be another option, like, say, navigation. If enough people bought hybrids, carmakers figured, they would achieve
sufficient economies of scale to eliminate the big premium over conventional models.

That hasn't happened. And some models have suffered badly . Honda Motor Co. (HMC) sold 70% fewer hybrid Accords in 2006;
Toyota has sold 24% fewer Lexus RX 400h sport-utility vehicles so far this year.
The fuel savings are simply too puny to offset the hybrid premium. With gas at $2.50 a gallon, it would take 10 years to recoup
the extra $3,000 cost of the Accord hybrid. ( Both vehicles have also been criticized for how they drive as well ) ...........


Getting prices down—and not by discounting—is the long-term solution. That means finding a way to make the cars more cheaply.
Batteries account for about half the hybrid premium. But cheaper lithium ion cells won't appear for several years.
Cutting costs further requires achieving those elusive economies of scale, which means building and selling more hybrids.
That's Toyota's strategy; it hopes to sell 160,000 Priuses this year, up from 107,000 in 2006.

Pulling that off will require deft marketing,
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especially since the government this fall will start requiring a more accurate
measure of fuel economy. The Prius' claimed 55 mpg will likely drop to a less compelling 46 mpg.
Both Toyota and Ford are planning major advertising campaigns. And discounts on all hybrids are here to stay for a while.

Look closely and you can see the automakers hedging their bets. Toyota is pushing into diesel.
Ditto for Honda, which may not build a new hybrid Accord. Nissan (NSANY) is waiting to see how its hybrid
Altima does before putting the technology into other vehicles.
Honda's planning chief for North America, Dan Bonawitz, likely speaks for most of his counterparts when he says:
"There won't be a giant surge in hybrid sales unless there's an oil crisis."

David Welch is BusinessWeek's Detroit bureau chief. ( And more often then not , a pretty darn good writer .
In fact my opinion only , but BW's IN HOUSE staff is one of the best UNBIASED sources thats not specifically industry oriented . )


--- sung to the tune of " Johnny B Goode " ----- go , go biodiesel go , ............ biodiesel be good !!



Also not mentioned , internal subsidies , tax incentives , etc .
And where exactly are these hybrids built ? How much of toyotas' , Hondas' , and Nissans' on going
and PLANNED increase in imports from Japan are being fueled by this ?

ADMIN NOTE: I edited to remove the long strings of periods -- they're messing up the format on smaller screens, requiring scrolling back and forth to read the rest of the thread.
 
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Lets see Honda used to make a 2 seat CRX HF that got 51 MPG and then the returned with a car the insight that get 52. Hmmm...... Lets see at least a $3000 premium and the CRX had a usable Trunk. #@$%!. Not work the difference if you ask me.
 
Diesels seem to get great fuel economy...my buddy at work has a VW Bug diesel that gets around 50 mpg, and he drives it hard. Why don't they make/sell more of these? Other than lower performance, are there other hidden costs that make diesels less appealing?
 
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Lets see Honda used to make a 2 seat CRX HF that got 51 MPG and then the returned with a car the insight that get 52.




Wow good memory. I remember that car and the mileage they advertised.
 
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Diesels seem to get great fuel economy...my buddy at work has a VW Bug diesel that gets around 50 mpg, and he drives it hard. Why don't they make/sell more of these? Other than lower performance, are there other hidden costs that make diesels less appealing?



I think a lot of companies were just holding off until low sulfur diesel to come out. There is also the perception among many buyers that diesels are still the loud, smokey engines they used to be. A lot still has to be done to convince people that diesel engines can be clean and quiet. Diesel is definitely an alternative to gas that should be paid a lot of attention though.
 
Yeah, you'd think with so many trying so hard to propagandize them out of existence, hybrids would be dead by now.
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Let's boil it right to the core. Every time the driver of a conventional steps on the brakes, he's throwing away energy that he bought and paid for as his motion is converted to heat. Every time I step on the brake, I put 1/3 to 1/2 of my kinetic energy back into my "gas tank." And then I get to use it again.

It's only a matter of time until the rising cost of gas (anyone seriously thinking it's stable???), the increasing efficiency of batteries, and their declining cost all combine to make the hybrid concept a permanent fixture in the automotive world.

I'm almost to the point where I can't stand driving my wife's new Avalon -- the thought of hitting the brakes and getting no energy back sickens me.
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Oh yeah, I forgot to add that Toyota's hardly backing away from the program. They're fielding a third generation Prius (as an 08 model is what I understand). It's to be slightly larger, somewhat restyled, will have a turbo 1.8L as its ICE, and is expected to be rated for 80 mpg. Yep, it's a dying technology. . .
 
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Diesel hybrid is where it's at. Ethanol... it a total joke.




Yeah, I sort of wondered if a diesel would appear plugged into (ooo, bad pun) an HSD architeture vehicle, perhaps the next Prius, but not so far. Diesel-plus-HSD would seem to be a tremendous combo.
 
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Ethanol... it a total joke.



I would not call it that. It is not the solution to all of our energy problems, but it is one step in the right direction...a renewable, clean burning fuel that does not present major drivability problems and can be transported in a conventional fuel tank. Like I said, it is not a perfect fuel, NO fuel is at the moment, but it is something that 5 million vehicles on the road could take advantage of if it were just easier to come by.
 
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I would not call it that. It is not the solution to all of our energy problems, but it is one step in the right direction...a renewable, clean burning fuel that does not present major drivability problems and can be transported in a conventional fuel tank. Like I said, it is not a perfect fuel, NO fuel is at the moment, but it is something that 5 million vehicles on the road could take advantage of if it were just easier to come by.




I think I'd rather buy diesel or bio diesel vehicle before an ethanol one.
 
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Toyota is pushing into diesel.
Ditto for Honda, which may not build a new hybrid Accord. Nissan (NSANY) is waiting to see how its hybrid
Altima does before putting the technology into other vehicles.
Honda's planning chief for North America, Dan Bonawitz, likely speaks for most of his counterparts when he says:
"There won't be a giant surge in hybrid sales unless there's an oil crisis."




Not the biggest fan of Hybrids.

After reading the article, Toyota and Honda seem well aware of the market and ready to make state of the art diesel's I'm sure.
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Well , why not both or really , -- why not let anything that works - work .
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What I'm thinking here is that part of the " best " solution is " many " solutions .
At times we seem to look for "one " solution and " miss " the optimality that a " combined arms " sort of solution could provide .
Some of these choices could be geographically/local resource driven ( always duty cycle in mind ) - just look at all the interesting innovations that are happening with stationary power in places like Iceland , Greenland , etc .

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ekpolk - thank you for the tip , the editing , and making my post more readable .
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As I was mentioning to LouDawg via PM , I have much to learn about computers and now I'm wondering how many other posts are formatted awkwardly - I thought it was just on my end viewing wise .
My apologies to the forum at large .
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Hybrids: The demand just isn't there right now, and the technology is too expensive. Gas prices were up for a couple months and Chicken Littles everywhere were harking the downfall of the internal combustion engine as we know it. Then what? Gas prices fell to normal levels and buyers went back to their normal habits. For hybrids to catch on, one of two things has to happen (or, more likely, a combination): The technology has to become cheaper and gas prices have to reach high sustained levels. Until that happens, there's just no incentive for expensive fuel efficiency.

If I were producing hybrids, I don't think I'd be too worried though. If the government has its way with CAFE standards then we'll all be forced into cars we don't want and can't afford.



Ethanol: The selling point behind ethanol isn't that it offers tremendous fuel economy savings (in fact, currently you lose MPG running ethanol), it's the fact that we can produce it in this country. It's a promising way to help ween us off of foreign oil and ensure fair prices (no more oil cartels).


Diesel: Diesels are unquestionably more efficient than gasoline engines and would make a good match with a hybrid drivetrain, or even on their own. The biggest things holding them back are public perception and availability.
 
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. . . Until that happens, there's just no incentive for expensive fuel efficiency.

. . . The biggest things holding them back are public perception . . .




Forgive me for butchering up your post, but the way I did highlights one of my pet peeves about the narrow view of hybrids that seems so prevalent. Sure, there's still a cost delta that you pay for a hybrid vehicle. Most folks seem to shut off right there and declare: not worth it.

I disagree. That Delta is closing constantly, though, and for some, they're definitely worth it right now. I took it a step further, I bought a used 2004 Prius (the first year of the larger hatchback design -- not the little sedan) with only 15k miles on it. I drive 40k miles per year. Compared to my previous car (a G35 sedan), I'm saving ~$200 per month in fuel alone. And that's at today's "stabilized low" prices. And I actually enjoy this car. It's not fast, but it's electric motor torque characteristics mask that pretty well. The steering is honest, direct,and symmetrical. It cuts nicely around in traffic, light on it's feet. It's certainly not for everyone, but I love this car.

XB70: No need for hints or speculation about the new 2008 car -- meet the new 2008 Prius right here!

EDIT: Uh-oh, I just noticed the little disclaimer about that being an "artist's impression", but I don't think it is far off from what we'll see.
 
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Has anybody ever done a study of how much energy is used producing hybrid cars vs. what they use, and compared it to gasoline? That is, are the energy savings offset by the energy costs associated with producing, marketing, and distributing it?
 
Not that I know of.

I do remember reading somewhere that Honda spent so much money building the Insight that they actually lost money on the car at the price they were selling them. Apparently their goal with the car was to prime the market for hybrids and then be able to somewhat efficiently produce them later on.
 
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Has anybody ever done a study of how much energy is used producing hybrid cars vs. what they use, and compared it to gasoline? That is, are the energy savings offset by the energy costs associated with producing, marketing, and distributing it?




There are some wildly varying things I've seen. I look at them and just shake my head. The critical point would be the difference compared to the same costs for a regular old gasser. Hybrids like the Prius are gasoline powered cars, not exotic flying saucers. Compared to a standard car, you add the battery (recyclable), two motor-generators, and electrical/electronic hardware, you take away the complex automatic transmission, and replace it with something about as simple as a pickup's differential, and that's about it. Oh yeah, the Prius also gets a "thermos" circuit added to the cooling system; it stores hot coolant, which is injected into the block on start, so the car is almost immediately "hot". So really, as compared to a normal car, not that much total energy difference.
 
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