2022. Not sure where it came from. I’m pretty sure it came into port in Philly? We were fuming mad. Hyundai service and corporate did nothing to help that matter either, although it was pretty easy to get them to throw money at me a few times…it wasn’t easy (impossible) to get them to replace it (following lemon law rules in MD…I would’ve just traded it in if they replaced it anyway) and took forever to negotiate the buy back vs “hush money” deal.
Any nonrepeat Hybrid Buyers?
- Thread starter The Critic
- Start date
They're way too expensive - I can buy a new one with my desired options for $5k more:
Although the equipment content is different, I can get into a non-hybrid with my desired equipment content for about $8k less than a hybrid.
My family’s 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid built in August 2009, is going strong at 190K miles. Still averages 45 MPG and is on its original brakes. It’s been a Virginia car for all of its life.
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We got our Jeep and Durango brand new in February and March 2022. That COVID build quality shows. The Durango has dents here and there from the factory, but I got a PDR guy to fix most of them and the dealership covered the repair. The wiring in the front part of the cabin under the dash looks like it was installed by the Forest Service. Anyway, with some work, I got them to run, and they're okay. I'm not trying to complain. Any time we had issues, the dealership was useless and didn't want to cooperate. I don't have infinite time to try and get stuff fixed, so finally I gave up mentally, and fixed everything on my own. The garbage headlights on the Jeep were replaced with Made in Taiwan eBay headlamps, and I installed LEDs in them. A fraction of the cost of "OEM" lamp, and they are 10x better, I kid you not.
I get where you're coming from. Most manufacturers are problematic. I dread needing to purchase a vehicle any time soon.
I would definitively go for the non-hybrid version then. The future is too uncertain to predict, and 15 years is a long time. And $8K isn't exactly chump-change, at least to me.
This was the first thing I noticed comparing a new 2019 Prius to a 2005. Stuff like the underbelly plastic was a cheaper, more brittle substance. Or maybe they made it more biodegradable... but it feels cheap. However they could do this to a Lexus too and few would notice or care.
Was in the same boat as you @The Critic Recommended in-laws GS350, they got Es350, but whatever. It is more that I could not get over recommending FWD over very good RWD vehicle, and they are in Las Vegas.
I would just go ICE.
I would just go ICE.
On the Rav4 the motor connector on the rear corrodes. It was a cheeped out design. The cable is like $5K and only covered under the 3 year warranty. Its a potential issue for anywhere with salt. They claim to have fixed the design a couple years in but opinions on whether its better vary, the new design hasn't been around that long. The older generation had no such issue / better connector.
There were some other issues, like early model gas tanks wouldn't fill. The evap would close too soon or something. They did fix that apparently.
There were other issues.
I feel like the original Prius they knew it had to be reliable so they went all in. Now that everyone thinks there bulletproof there living on reputation. IMHO.
False. They extended the cable warranty out to 10Y/100K.
Well thats good. When it was happening several people were charged for the repair. I hope they got reimbursed.
Yup. They received instructions on how to get reimbursed. Toyota did right by the owners.
With $5 rag around here, if you drive around town enough a hybrid can make sense. I like it that all RX hybrids are AWD. Toyota makes the best hybrids. But this is just me, each have their own use case, wants and preferences. The Toyota Venza and Lex NX hybrids are really nice vehicles as well...
I ran a quick ROI.
So OP said it was $8K difference. Break even at $5 a gallon = 8000 / $69 x 1000 = 116,000 miles.
OP said they drive 7000 miles a year. That would make it 16.5 years.
If you actually added in the time value of money currently at 5% and assumed that sticks, its likely 20+ years.
Hybrid makes no sense in this case - for fuel savings at least.
- AWD ICE is 24mpg average 1000 miles is 41.66 gallons, and at $5 a gallon thats $208.
- AWD hybrid - only comes in AWD - 36MPG = 27.77 gallons = $139 per 1000 miles (at $5 a gallon).
- So $69 savings every 1000 miles.
So OP said it was $8K difference. Break even at $5 a gallon = 8000 / $69 x 1000 = 116,000 miles.
OP said they drive 7000 miles a year. That would make it 16.5 years.
If you actually added in the time value of money currently at 5% and assumed that sticks, its likely 20+ years.
Hybrid makes no sense in this case - for fuel savings at least.
@SC Maintenance you're just being logical again...
If I were logical I wouldn't drive ancient Nissan's.
However in this case, a hybrid will not pay for itself on gas savings. There may be plenty of other reasons to get one - but not that one.
Lower mileage driver I’d likely prefer the non hybrid as well. We have had only two hybrids. Honda Insight and our current ‘21 Sienna with 87K miles. Both racked up the mileage quickly and this is where the hybrid really shines.
Seeing how OP said that the anticipated ownership is 105K miles over 15 years that’s pretty darn close to a negligible difference. Now, add in at least one brake job (likely two) for the non-hybrid. And if they are elderly and likely bringing it to the Lexus dealer for that brake job, now you are looking at an additional $800 minimum in additional maintenance for the non-hybrid. Hybrids are also stupid easy on their 12V batteries because they are only used to throw one relay on the traction battery. Our 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid is on its factory battery at 190K. It has been testing as “bad” for about 8 years, but it still turns the car on.
If they live in a warm environment, a hybrid will also be much more comfortable if they do any amount of sitting and idling in the car. Hybrids will shut off their engine and idle with the air conditioning going for roughly 10-25 minutes before having to kick their engine back on. Traditional cars will idle the motor the entire time.
As for low-mileage drivers preferring non-but did, I’d say it depends. My mom was a 2-4K mile per year driver towards the end and she loved her hybrid. As her mobility issues ramped up, she was able to get food with my father or the grand kids at a drive-through and then sit with the engine off while they ate. She was also able to drive to local parks with the grandkids and while the kids were playing, she was able to sit in the car with air conditioning; zero gas burned.
When dealing with retirees, you can’t simply break things down to “ X will be $500 cheaper overall over 15 years”. Think of the creature comforts and whatnot. OP, have them drive both cars and take cost out of it. See which one they like more.
There definitely is more to hybrids than just the fuel to purchase price ratio. People worry about battery replacement after awhile. But many non hybrids can be expected to start having transmission issues around the time as the hybrid battery replacement. While hybrid transmissions seemingly go forever. So that could be considered technically a wash too.
The problem with very low mileage hybrids is batteries don’t function optimally sitting for long periods. That isn’t to say they cannot function but it will most certainly shorten the life expectancy. “There are no solutions. There are only trade offs.” as Thomas Sowell would say.
True. Honda notes its hybrids must be driven at least 20 minutes every 90 days or the HV battery will be depleted. As the HV battery starts the ICE short of a tow to the dealer, you’re stuck. This makes a Honda hybrid a poor choice for snowbirds (wonder if they know?).
I’d definitely say non hybrid for any vehicle that has the potential to sit for long periods or only run for short distances. This isn’t where hybrids shine.
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