Any nonrepeat Hybrid Buyers?

if you can find an off-lease prior generation, that may be a slam dunk as far as cost and reliability is concerned.
 
The 5.7 was on of the best motors ever made....but now its dead.....so.....
Comparing a motor you can't get new anymore to anything else is silly....IMHO.
Tell that to every Chevy fan boy ever. Us Ford guys would never bring up the reliability of the 4.9 I6 though….oh wait 🤣
 
no complaints over the last 5 years/~40k mi in used C-Max Hybrid... nothing outside "normal" maintenance... and when the time come's i'd like to replace it with a Maverick hybrid. ( bought 5 years old/ 64k mi, just turned 100k last week)

Before I bought the C-Max, My Brother bought a used 2014 Volt ( gen 1), drove it for 4 years, traded it to carvana for basically what he paid*, on a '17 Escape.
Then he found out about the problems with the newer ecoboost 4cyl engines cracking between the cylinders and drinking all the coolant. ( this one was good so far),but between that, and the prior slapdash body work Carvana didn't disclose... he was worrying himself to death over potentially having to spend $8k on a new engine, He ended up trading it in after 18-24 mos on... A used Chevy Bolt. 20k mi, battery already replaced, with the Govt, Rebate, and his Escape as a trade in, he ended up paying ~$3k OOP. for the Bolt. ( that transaction was at the local Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Buick/GMC/Hyundai Dealer.)
a few months later, he's Happy as a Clam with his EV.


*he was afraid of problems with parts availability on a few known problems with those Volts, since they were long enough out of production, and none of the local Chevy dealers are "Voltech Certified"
he was specifically the electric heater matrix they employed, for the batteries was basically a bunch of Mofsets iirc, and would eventually burn themselves out. even if you remote start it while plugged in, to warm up, it will use the electric heater to condition the battery, vs. engine heat. ( engine automatically kicks in under 30F)

and yes, he's already realized that if something DOES go awry with the Bolt, the nearest Chevy Dealer that has the certifications is about an hour away.
 
- Vehicle Cost: I am finding non-hybrid models to be discounted and are also being built in configurations I prefer. The hybrid models tend to have significantly more optional equipment and the discounts are lower, especially in my preferred color combo. As a result, it will cost me at least $5K more to obtain a hybrid than a non-hybrid.
It sounds like you're buying the car for yourself. ;)
 
1) Don't buy a car today based on driving requirements more than 2 years in the future.

I am in the market for a 2024+ Lexus RX350 or RX350h for my in-laws. As a longtime owner and supporter of Toyota hybrids, I am considering a non-hybrid this time for a few reasons

2) Is this for you or for them? What do THEY want?

3) I don't think many seniors want to climb up into an SUV. Wouldn't a Camry be more comfortable?
 
1) Don't buy a car today based on driving requirements more than 2 years in the future.



2) Is this for you or for them? What do THEY want?

3) I don't think many seniors want to climb up into an SUV. Wouldn't a Camry be more comfortable?
It's a CUV-the hip swivel point is going to be great for a Senior-while getting in and out of a Camry is terrible. You have to "fold" yourself in to a Camry-anybody does-not only Seniors.
 
Why do people still think that the average driver will have to replace a hybrid battery by the time they hit 10Y/150K? Not saying that it can’t happen but it seems like an extreme rarity.

By always including a replacement battery cost into your calculations, you are effectively turning a low likelihood loss (battery replacement) into a high probability loss (higher fuel costs and no battery replacement needed) by going non-hybrid.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, hybrids are just better overall. Smoother, quieter, quicker, etc. plus the likelihood that a hybrid will ever need a brake job below 150K is close to nil.
 
I had a rav4 Prime. Traded it for an acura rdx. That for a c40. Finally that for an ev6 gt. Not a fan of Toyota product after owning, and hybrid is the worst of all worlds.
 
Why do people still think that the average driver will have to replace a hybrid battery by the time they hit 10Y/150K? Not saying that it can’t happen but it seems like an extreme rarity.

By always including a replacement battery cost into your calculations, you are effectively turning a low likelihood loss (battery replacement) into a high probability loss (higher fuel costs and no battery replacement needed) by going non-hybrid.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, hybrids are just better overall. Smoother, quieter, quicker, etc. plus the likelihood that a hybrid will ever need a brake job below 150K is close to nil.
Your an owner-so I will take what you said at face value. The caveat is a Hybrid is going to sell at or above sticker-negating the monetary benefits of owning one. Most guys I know who own newer vehicles don't need brakes jobs (generally) before 50,000 miles.
 
Huh? No worse than having to climb up into a truck or suv.
We can disagree. Much worse to fold yourself in than to climb up. Most have running boards that make it more accessible to "climb up". Getting out is far easier in a truck or SUV.
 
I love my Sahara 4xe and my next personal car may well be a new E53 or M5. PHEVs that even I find entertaining.
 
How difficult do you think it will be to sell a hybrid? Will the hybrid have steeper depreciation?
Judging by the resale of current, 10-yr old RX's - the hybrids are worth about the same as the non-hybrids.

I don't know your in-laws, but I recognize that most (not all) of the older generation like my parents, have an aversion to change and what they may perceive as complex emerging technology. While I concur that Toyota hybrid vehicles have a stellar track record, I suspect that your in-laws would blame the hybrid technology for any malfunctions on their new vehicle. You certainly don't want to be accused of steering them into that situation.
Fair point. They have also been driving V6's for the last 20 years, so I think they're in for a "culture shock" when all of the available engine options are 4-cyls.

@The Critic have you done the math on how much fuel the hybrid version could potentially save them, versus upfront cost?
This was outlined in the original post.

if you can find an off-lease prior generation, that may be a slam dunk as far as cost and reliability is concerned.
I considered the idea, but I can also buy a new one for about $10-12k more than an off-lease 2021 or 2022.

It sounds like you're buying the car for yourself. ;)
You aren't entirely wrong.

Why do people still think that the average driver will have to replace a hybrid battery by the time they hit 10Y/150K? Not saying that it can’t happen but it seems like an extreme rarity.

By always including a replacement battery cost into your calculations, you are effectively turning a low likelihood loss (battery replacement) into a high probability loss (higher fuel costs and no battery replacement needed) by going non-hybrid.

Anyways, as others have mentioned, hybrids are just better overall. Smoother, quieter, quicker, etc. plus the likelihood that a hybrid will ever need a brake job below 150K is close to nil.
I never said 10 years - I said by 15 years. Of all the hybrid batteries I have replaced for others, they usually occurred after the 12 year mark. I don't think you'll find very many hybrids from the 04-09 era (15-20 yr old mark) in warm climates with the original battery.
 
@The Critic have you done the math on how much fuel the hybrid version could potentially save them, versus upfront cost?


If you have time, please share the problems you had with that vehicle.
I didn’t test drive it. It was covid, cars were selling at a markup…I put $ on this one in transit, it showed up with no notice. Literally showed up on a Saturday so if I didn’t pick it up, it was being sold to someone else. I didn’t get there till late after cleaning up our trade, wasted ton of time negotiating the trade, left after closing.

Vibration right off the lot. Of course nobody is there.

Took it to my old shop. They told me I had 3 bad tires (failed road force) they told me they can’t help with warranting tires, Hyundai just flat out won’t, but selling dealer might goodwill them.

Selling dealer said they fixed them with balance. They didn’t.

3 trips or so later, finally have 2 new tires (not 3, not 4). Smooth-ish, but driveline vibration.

Selling dealer doesn’t understand what a driveline vibration is, tries to cut my rotors. I took the car to another dealer (shop 3).

They know it’s in the driveline but no idea where. Rotate driveshaft, say it’s fixed. It’s not.

Order and replace driveshaft. Vibration improved but not gone. Droning noise begins now too.

Replaced transfer case. No improvement.

They don’t know if they should replace trans or rear end. Or wheels. Or axles. Hyundai won’t let them do anything else “unless I raise a big stink.” Tech told me I should pursue lemon law.

Ultimately got it bought back, it was a more lucrative deal than the headache of lemon. Trade ins were worth a ton of $ and they offered me a good chunk too, and paid my car payment a few times as the car was in and out of the shops almost 2 months in total (business days).

Seat belt buckles were unlatching randomly.

Rear lift gate hatch panel popped in the heat. Literally sounded like acorns on the roof. Body shop had no idea how to fix it. They offered to remove it and reinstall it with glue instead of the factory clips. No thanks.

Paint had dirt under it. Body shop was aware but suggested not repairing due to paint fading and aging differently than factory paint would. I researched and found that to sound true so it never got fixed.

Tires started chopping and cupping around 7k miles. They started trying to tell me I had to buy tires for them to pursue fixing the driveline noise even though their notes said rear diff was noisy in the air. I had already rotated tires at 5k as well, and they aligned it when they did transfer case. No reason to eat tires that early.

Steering wheel damaged in service department. They would not fix. Had to enlist Maryland attorney general to get it fixed. They even admitted to it but would not fix it.

Ultimately it was the service around here and the fact that the shop foreman advised me to pursue lemon. That even if they fixed the driveline vibrations and droning, the problems often re-occurred.

That was a very frustrating almost exactly 1 year of ownership and 10k miles. A coworker of mine had a 2020 and started having tons of electrical nanny problems…the scariest made him trade his too. The lane keep almost drove him into a jersey wall or construction zone somehow.
 
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I think the market today is very different than the market 9 years ago when I bought my hybrid. Back then people would sort of give a discount to used hybrid because they are worried about battery replacement cost. Today I actually see those used V6 are getting a discount when aged because the customers tend to be frugal and would rather have cheap fuel than a worn out car with a thirsty smooth engine, and hybrids actually get a decent premium when battery replacement cost are factored in.

Current market is not completely back to normal yet, but I would imagine in a normalized market where you negotiate a discount from MSRP, you will see somewhat of a sawtooth like market at used EV / hybrid depending on how old the battery is and whether it was recently replaced.

I would likely only be a non repeat hybrid buyer because of 2 reasons: 1) I am going to EV, 2) I no longer drive much and only need a car that is cheap and rarely used (less than 10 miles each day), and in that case hybrid would be a waste and I might as well get a gas guzzler. I have a few seniors in my family who would likely stop driving in the near future so I imagine I would just keep driving their old cars, and by the time they are all worn out I don't know what kind of vehicles would be good (EV maybe mature and cheap by then, or I might move to a downtown somewhere and I don't drive).
 
When I bought a Rav4 in 2019 it was the same issue - ICE was discounted heavily, hybrids were MSRP. The math on hybrids didn't work.

As it turns out they have had a lot more problems with the Hybrids than the ICE in that platform. Doesn't necessarily translate, but Toyota seems to be doing "value engineering" on the hybrids - ie cheapening them. THey don't feel they need to prove anything anymore.

Can you still find a low mile CPO 2021 with the 3.5l? The CPO warranty is longer, and if your worried get the platinum warranty - which you can get out to 125,000 miles / 10 years old vehicle. There not really that much money, and the platinum warranty does cover more than the powertrain.
 
- Vehicle Cost: I am finding non-hybrid models to be discounted and are also being built in configurations I prefer. The hybrid models tend to have significantly more optional equipment and the discounts are lower, especially in my preferred color combo. As a result, it will cost me at least $5K more to obtain a hybrid than a non-hybrid.
I had the same problem 9 years ago in my local dealers. I ended up driving 4 hours away to get my "dream car": a left over base model from last year with a 5k (that's 20-25%) off from MSRP brand new.

This is something you have to spend time to track down regardless of a sport car or a hybrid. You can't just walk into a dealer waiting for a cheap brown station wagon with a heavy discount, you have to search for it and sometimes order it on a slow day from a desperate dealer.
 
I didn’t test drive it. It was covid, cars were selling at a markup…I put $ on this one in transit, it showed up with no notice. Literally showed up on a Saturday so if I didn’t pick it up, it was being sold to someone else. I didn’t get there till late after cleaning up our trade, wasted ton of time negotiating the trade, left after closing.

Vibration right off the lot. Of course nobody is there.

Took it to my old shop. They told me I had 3 bad tires (failed road force) they told me they can’t help with warranting tires, Hyundai just flat out won’t, but selling dealer might goodwill them.

Selling dealer said they fixed them with balance. They didn’t.

3 trips or so later, finally have 2 new tires (not 3, not 4). Smooth-ish, but driveline vibration.

Selling dealer doesn’t understand what a driveline vibration is, tries to cut my rotors. I took the car to another dealer (shop 3).

They know it’s in the driveline but no idea where. Rotate driveshaft, say it’s fixed. It’s not.

Order and replace driveshaft. Vibration improved but not gone. Droning noise begins now too.

Replaced transfer case. No improvement.

They don’t know if they should replace trans or rear end. Or wheels. Or axles. Hyundai won’t let them do anything else “unless I raise a big stink.” Tech told me I should pursue lemon law.

Ultimately got it bought back, it was a more lucrative deal than the headache of lemon. Trade ins were worth a ton of $ and they offered me a good chunk too, and paid my car payment a few times as the car was in and out of the shops almost 2 months in total (business days).

Seat belt buckles were unlatching randomly.

Rear lift gate hatch panel popped in the heat. Literally sounded like acorns on the roof. Body shop had no idea how to fix it. They offered to remove it and reinstall it with glue instead of the factory clips. No thanks.

Paint had dirt under it. Body shop was aware but suggested not repairing due to paint fading and aging differently than factory paint would. I researched and found that to sound true so it never got fixed.

Tires started chopping and cupping around 7k miles. They started trying to tell me I had to buy tires for them to pursue fixing the driveline noise even though their notes said rear diff was noisy in the air. I had already rotated tires at 5k as well, and they aligned it when they did transfer case. No reason to eat tires that early.

Steering wheel damaged in service department. They would not fix. Had to enlist Maryland attorney general to get it fixed. They even admitted to it but would not fix it.

Ultimately it was the service around here and the fact that the shop foreman advised me to pursue lemon. That even if they fixed the driveline vibrations and droning, the problems often re-occurred.

That was a very frustrating almost exactly 1 year of ownership and 10k miles. A coworker of mine had a 2020 and started having tons of electrical nanny problems…the scariest made him trade his too. The lane keep almost drove him into a jersey wall or construction zone somehow.
Wow, you really drew the short stick on that one. I'd be fuming if it was my vehicle. You're more patient than me Sir, props to you.

What year did this happen?

I've never seen a Hyundai this bad. Where was it manufactured (final assembly point)?

This was outlined in the original post.
I read the OP, but I was referring to the price of the non-hybrid vs. the hybrid version. That's why I said "upfront cost". Probably could have phrased it better.
 
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