Any nonrepeat Hybrid Buyers?

[The Critic]

I am in the market for a 2024+ Lexus RX350 or RX350h for my in-laws. As a longtime owner and supporter of Toyota hybrids, I am considering a non-hybrid this time for a few reasons:

- Annual Mileage: my in-laws drive 7K/yr and I only foresee that number decreasing over time. Over a 15 yr ownership period of 105K miles, assuming a 10 mpg differential at $5/gal, there is a $7500 operating cost advantage to the hybrid.

- Battery Cost: The chance of needing a new hybrid battery after 15 years is decently high, especially in a warm climate like mine. I have seen very poor results from remanufactured hybrid batteries, so those will never be an option to me. The cost of hybrid batteries on some newer Toyota's is significantly higher than before - it is a $6K+ expenditure. Even with the estimated $7500 fuel savings, the savings becomes <$1500.

- Vehicle Cost: I am finding non-hybrid models to be discounted and are also being built in configurations I prefer. The hybrid models tend to have significantly more optional equipment and the discounts are lower, especially in my preferred color combo. As a result, it will cost me at least $5K more to obtain a hybrid than a non-hybrid.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

How difficult do you think it will be to sell a hybrid? Will the hybrid have steeper depreciation?

 

[CKN]

I am in the market for a 2024+ Lexus RX350 or RX350h for my in-laws. As a longtime owner and supporter of Toyota hybrids, I am considering a non-hybrid this time for a few reasons:

- Annual Mileage: my in-laws drive 7K/yr and I only foresee that number decreasing over time. Over a 15 yr ownership period of 105K miles, assuming a 10 mpg differential at $5/gal, there is a $7500 operating cost advantage to the hybrid.

- Battery Cost: The chance of needing a new hybrid battery after 15 years is decently high, especially in a warm climate like mine. I have seen very poor results from remanufactured hybrid batteries, so those will never be an option to me. The cost of hybrid batteries on some newer Toyota's is significantly higher than before - it is a $6K+ expenditure. Even with the estimated $7500 fuel savings, the savings becomes <$1500.

- Vehicle Cost: I am finding non-hybrid models to be discounted and are also being built in configurations I prefer. The hybrid models tend to have significantly more optional equipment and the discounts are lower, especially in my preferred color combo. As a result, it will cost me at least $5K more to obtain a hybrid than a non-hybrid.

S0-the ultimate net is not that much over an ICE. Why bother?

 

[cptbarkey]

Buying new is very expensive with their anticipated decline in driving. My parents did the same and there is barely 36k on a brand new 2014 Grand Caravan, of which I probably put 10k. You are doing the right thing shopping for a Lexus though, an 5-7 year old RX is likely perfect for them.

 

[The Lube Guy]

For less money, you could recommend them a Hyundai Palisade, a conventional vehicle in every sense of the word. It's also roomier, and reliability is good. They might even love you more for it. Just a thought.

 

[Zee09]

How difficult do you think it will be to sell a hybrid? With the hybrid have steeper depreciation?

I sold my 7 year old Ford Cmax for almost what I paid for it new. Thanks Carvana..

 

[DriveHard]

Yuck...we have one of those in our test fleet here at work. Not premium, doesn't get as good of mileage, nor is it as powerful as my wife's Kia.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

S0-the ultimate net is not that much over an ICE. Why bother?

Or why not? If hybrid gives you a better driving experience (ex, less noise, better convenience of not having to fill up as often, etc)?

 

[TumblrDucks]

Yuck...we have one of those in our test fleet here at work. Not premium, doesn't get as good of mileage, nor is it as powerful as my wife's Kia.

Yike. Lexus should keep using NA v6.

 

[eljefino]

In ten years or whenever they go to sell, what happens if Cali stays on their electrification plan? Good, used, low mileage gasoline vehicles will have their buyers. I think you're on the right track.

 

[Jetronic]

I made the same calculation you did and decided not to buy my first hybrid..... And then there are reports plug in hybrid batteries are failing early, but usually after their battery tech is outdated and mega expensive to replace.

They also tend to come with more expensive finishes, for example a full set of Hyundai Kona Led front lights costs 14k euro.... I'll take halogen, thanks....

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

For less money, you could recommend them a Hyundai Palisade, a conventional vehicle in every sense of the word. It's also roomier, and reliability is good. They might even love you more for it. Just a thought.

What?? Hyundai reliability is good???

 

[BAJA_05]

What?? Hyundai reliability is good???

Yeah, hes been bashing Toyota left and right lately and that is his recommendation. REALLY????

 

[The Lube Guy]

What?? Hyundai reliability is good???

This would be a long rabbit hole to go down and explain. So I will say this:

A lot, but not all of it, of Hyundai's bad reliability problems has to do with how owners treated their vehicles, with Hyundai's long-standing ineptitude of effectively communicating problems to customers and dealerships, and with bad Hyundai dealers recommending the wrong and unnecessary services to customers, meanwhile failing to educate them on how to properly maintain their vehicles. However, the vehicles themselves are decently engineered and built.

Yeah, hes been bashing Toyota left and right lately and that is his recommendation. REALLY????

My comments were all about the Toyota Tundra engine debacle. Actually, I've been considering a Toyota Tacoma lately, and just when I was getting ready to pull the trigger, the Toyota dealerships started raising prices again at the beginning of June. And it was a manual 4x4, a pretty sweet truck. However, I wouldn't touch a Tundra with a ten foot pole. Hyundai doesn't sell any pickup trucks. That Santa Cruz thing is not really a truck, no matter what Hyundai says.

 

[BAJA_05]

This would be a long rabbit hole to go down and explain. So I will say this:

A lot, but not all of it, of Hyundai's bad reliability problems has to do with how owners treated their vehicles, with Hyundai's long-standing ineptitude of effectively communicating problems to customers and dealerships, and with bad Hyundai dealers recommending the wrong and unnecessary services to customers, meanwhile failing to educate them on how to properly maintain their vehicles. However, the vehicles themselves are decently engineered and built.


My comments were all about the Toyota Tundra engine debacle. Actually, I've been considering a Toyota Tacoma lately, and just when I was getting ready to pull the trigger, the Toyota dealerships started raising prices again at the beginning of June. And it was a manual 4x4, a pretty sweet truck. However, I wouldn't touch a Tundra with a ten foot pole. Hyundai doesn't sell any pickup trucks. That Santa Cruz thing is not really a truck, no matter what Hyundai

Different strokes for different folks, I myself would not recommend any Hyundai or Kia to anyone --- any age group. Entirely too many failures and problems over the years and still growing. Side note, I would take my 08 Tundra 5.7L engine over any Hyundai or Kia from 2008 or today.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Side note, I would take my 08 Tundra 5.7L engine over any Hyundai or Kia from 2008 or today.

I agree. That's a solid truck.

 

[CKN]

I agree. That's a solid truck.

The 5.7 was on of the best motors ever made....but now its dead.....so.....
Comparing a motor you can't get new anymore to anything else is silly....IMHO.

 

[Nukeman7]

I don't know your in-laws, but I recognize that most (not all) of the older generation like my parents, have an aversion to change and what they may perceive as complex emerging technology. While I concur that Toyota hybrid vehicles have a stellar track record, I suspect that your in-laws would blame the hybrid technology for any malfunctions on their new vehicle. You certainly don't want to be accused of steering them into that situation.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

This would be a long rabbit hole to go down and explain. So I will say this:

A lot, but not all of it, of Hyundai's bad reliability problems has to do with how owners treated their vehicles, with Hyundai's long-standing ineptitude of effectively communicating problems to customers and dealerships, and with bad Hyundai dealers recommending the wrong and unnecessary services to customers, meanwhile failing to educate them on how to properly maintain their vehicles. However, the vehicles themselves are decently engineered and built.


My comments were all about the Toyota Tundra engine debacle. Actually, I've been considering a Toyota Tacoma lately, and just when I was getting ready to pull the trigger, the Toyota dealerships started raising prices again at the beginning of June. And it was a manual 4x4, a pretty sweet truck. However, I wouldn't touch a Tundra with a ten foot pole. Hyundai doesn't sell any pickup trucks. That Santa Cruz thing is not really a truck, no matter what Hyundai says.

I’d always been “for” Hyundai…worked in a big multi group dealer along side Hyundai guys and when they introduced whatever body styles came in about 2011 I thought they’d really turned a corner. We bought a 2013 Santa Fe new, it had some issues but ended up having to get rid of it real quick with a lack of leg space once we had a kid in a rear facing seat.

Fast forward to 2022 when we wanted to get out of minivan life, we bought a 2022 palisade…against my old co-workers advice…I still wanted to believe Hyundai had turned that corner and actually deserved the prices they were commanding. Way more features for the same money as a Honda or Toyota while being “reliable” and having a better warranty, win win right.

That was the biggest POS. The car, the service, dealing with corporate, it all sucked. I live just outside DC and had to deal with 4 separate dealerships. None of them could get the car right. They knew it too. They try to schedule you a month or more out. They sit on the car over a week before they even take it on a test drive. Parts take forever. I can’t even begin to tell you how frustrating it was, having had ties to a Hyundai shop and still having friends there but management wouldn’t let them fix the car properly, etc etc.

That being said, never Hyundai / Kia again, never.

Recalling @The Critic dealings with his new Ram and everything I’ve seen him post, I’m pretty sure he’s more meticulous and picky than me. Hyundai isn’t the car for him or anyone he takes care of.

 

[supton]

I was cheap so I didn't buy a hybrid the second time around. Upfront cost, really. But I do have some concerns about long term battery cost, not going to lie.

But I just wanted small and cheap, as I my future plans were too unknown to think too long term.