No, it was simply that after the time it took to receive the rebate check, it was no cheaper than paying for "good enough" oil at Costco, without the rebate hassle.
Why Do We Complicate Things?
- Thread starter Gene K
- Start date
Woosh.... Just messin' with you, no harm intended, LOL
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Ten billion possible neural connections in a two and a half pound brain.
Or maybe it's obsessions created by complications?
There is absolutely no question that some engines can go many miles on cheap oil of appropriate viscosity and relatively infrequent oil changes. There are also many engines that cannot. Do you know which one you have? Is the 400K example above a Toyota truck? I currently have 200K on a Jag X-Type that is known for 125K connecting rod bearing destruction. I thrash the car to redline every day. The reason it's held up just fine is my use of M1, 5W-40.
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400,000+ mi example is 2013 F150 Gen 1 3.5 Ecoboost (TGDI) which do not have a reputation for being kind to oil. Original Timing Set and Turbos.
The people who agonize over this stuff (those who are not OCD) do so because there are so many variables:
How did the previous owner treat this vehicle?
Was it short tripped? Did it get regular service?
Is there any sludge or deposits(s) in the motor?
If yes, should I use a motor flush or do a couple quick changes?
How long do I plan to keep this vehicle?
Should I run synthetic or conventional? What kind of intervals?
What's the right oil filter for my application/usage?
Do I reuse the filter (change oil only) every other service?
How old is the differential lube? Is it factory fill?
What about the transmission? Was the filter ever changed?
GAH!
Throw in the various "personalities" on these boards and you see why some of the topics here end up as they do.
How did the previous owner treat this vehicle?
Was it short tripped? Did it get regular service?
Is there any sludge or deposits(s) in the motor?
If yes, should I use a motor flush or do a couple quick changes?
How long do I plan to keep this vehicle?
Should I run synthetic or conventional? What kind of intervals?
What's the right oil filter for my application/usage?
Do I reuse the filter (change oil only) every other service?
How old is the differential lube? Is it factory fill?
What about the transmission? Was the filter ever changed?
GAH!
Throw in the various "personalities" on these boards and you see why some of the topics here end up as they do.
I suspect that 99% of the cars we see on the road everyday have owners who don't even know what grade of oil is in their car, much less the brand or type. Maybe they use the quick lube shops or the dealerships regularly, or maybe they rarely change the oil at all. Even so, the cars will probably still go many miles reliably.
Today's engines in general are so well made and so efficient, as are today's motor oils.
My '02 Tacoma with 217K has had every brand of conventional, synthetic, and blend around. It runs fine and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I remember when I first changed to synthetic. At least three friends were absolutely certain I'd see oil leaks because the pickup had previously run conventional oil. Nope.
Still, these forums are fun, and the conversations interesting.
Today's engines in general are so well made and so efficient, as are today's motor oils.
My '02 Tacoma with 217K has had every brand of conventional, synthetic, and blend around. It runs fine and doesn't burn a drop of oil. I remember when I first changed to synthetic. At least three friends were absolutely certain I'd see oil leaks because the pickup had previously run conventional oil. Nope.
Still, these forums are fun, and the conversations interesting.
A friend has a 2003 Tahoe 5.3L pretty much identical to my 2002. He has 220k miles to my 265k miles. He asked me to look it over last year because it was making some "weird noises." The first thing I do is check the oil and it's hardly even touching the dipstick and is jet black. I added 1.5 quarts to get it back into normal range. He admitted that he had to add oil every month or so when the light would come on. I pulled the plugs and found that they were old platinums with a lot of corrosion and gaps all over the place. It wouldn't surprise me if they were OEM. He then stated it would be hard to start up some times. Of the 8 cylinders, 2 were down >20% on compression from the rest of them with another down by 15%. Those 3 plugs were also coated in oil. "Oh, it drives fine." 
He had an oil leak from the rear main seal, which isn't uncommon for these engines, but not enough to account for his 1.5 quart oil loss every 1000-1500 miles. The PCV valve was completely plugged from sludge. None of this accounted for the noise though. After replacing the plugs and PCV valve, and topping off the oil, I cranked it up and it was reading just 20 psi at cold idle. "Oh, it's always been that way."
I decided to drain the oil and drop the oil pan. The pan had a lot of sludge in it, and it was loaded up in the pickup tube. I cleaned the pan out, replaced the pickup tube, reinstalled the pan, put fresh oil in it, and bam... 40 psi cold oil pressure. It was still clacking pretty badly though. I narrowed the location of the sound down to under the intake manifold. Great.... I pulled the top end off and got to the lifters. The tips of all 8 pushrods was badly worn. Six of the 8 lifters were collapsed and would not pump up. The lifter bores were worn as well as the peaks of the cam lobes. I recommended a complete engine rebuild or find a used replacement in good shape. "Nah, replace the lifters and pushrods. I'll keep running it until it dies."
He leaves a blue smoke trail behind him everywhere he goes. He pulls it into "Jiffy" for an oil change when the light turns on. I told him he'd benefit from running something like Valvoline PBR or Red Line HP or something with a lot of ester to try to clean up the rings and see if that'll stop some of the oil loss and help the compression. "I can't afford that mess." Yet he can afford to smoke a pack a day (>$200/month). I just don't understand some people.
I have 40k more miles than his with none of the problems he has. That's why I care. That's why I use good quality oils and filters.
Another thing is that I like to support companies that support me and my hobbies. I don't see Kirkland or Traveler sponsoring racetracks and investing in R&D. That kind of stuff goes a long way with me.
He had an oil leak from the rear main seal, which isn't uncommon for these engines, but not enough to account for his 1.5 quart oil loss every 1000-1500 miles. The PCV valve was completely plugged from sludge. None of this accounted for the noise though. After replacing the plugs and PCV valve, and topping off the oil, I cranked it up and it was reading just 20 psi at cold idle. "Oh, it's always been that way."
I decided to drain the oil and drop the oil pan. The pan had a lot of sludge in it, and it was loaded up in the pickup tube. I cleaned the pan out, replaced the pickup tube, reinstalled the pan, put fresh oil in it, and bam... 40 psi cold oil pressure. It was still clacking pretty badly though. I narrowed the location of the sound down to under the intake manifold. Great.... I pulled the top end off and got to the lifters. The tips of all 8 pushrods was badly worn. Six of the 8 lifters were collapsed and would not pump up. The lifter bores were worn as well as the peaks of the cam lobes. I recommended a complete engine rebuild or find a used replacement in good shape. "Nah, replace the lifters and pushrods. I'll keep running it until it dies."
He leaves a blue smoke trail behind him everywhere he goes. He pulls it into "Jiffy" for an oil change when the light turns on. I told him he'd benefit from running something like Valvoline PBR or Red Line HP or something with a lot of ester to try to clean up the rings and see if that'll stop some of the oil loss and help the compression. "I can't afford that mess." Yet he can afford to smoke a pack a day (>$200/month). I just don't understand some people.
I have 40k more miles than his with none of the problems he has. That's why I care. That's why I use good quality oils and filters.
Another thing is that I like to support companies that support me and my hobbies. I don't see Kirkland or Traveler sponsoring racetracks and investing in R&D. That kind of stuff goes a long way with me.
A friend has a 2003 Tahoe 5.3L pretty much identical to my 2002. He has 220k miles to my 265k miles. He asked me to look it over last year because it was making some "weird noises." The first thing I do is check the oil and it's hardly even touching the dipstick and is jet black. I added 1.5 quarts to get it back into normal range. He admitted that he had to add oil every month or so when the light would come on. I pulled the plugs and found that they were old platinums with a lot of corrosion and gaps all over the place. It wouldn't surprise me if they were OEM. He then stated it would be hard to start up some times. Of the 8 cylinders, 2 were down >20% on compression from the rest of them with another down by 15%. Those 3 plugs were also coated in oil. "Oh, it drives fine."
He had an oil leak from the rear main seal, which isn't uncommon for these engines, but not enough to account for his 1.5 quart oil loss every 1000-1500 miles. The PCV valve was completely plugged from sludge. None of this accounted for the noise though. After replacing the plugs and PCV valve, and topping off the oil, I cranked it up and it was reading just 20 psi at cold idle. "Oh, it's always been that way."
I decided to drain the oil and drop the oil pan. The pan had a lot of sludge in it, and it was loaded up in the pickup tube. I cleaned the pan out, replaced the pickup tube, reinstalled the pan, put fresh oil in it, and bam... 40 psi cold oil pressure. It was still clacking pretty badly though. I narrowed the location of the sound down to under the intake manifold. Great.... I pulled the top end off and got to the lifters. The tips of all 8 pushrods was badly worn. Six of the 8 lifters were collapsed and would not pump up. The lifter bores were worn as well as the peaks of the cam lobes. I recommended a complete engine rebuild or find a used replacement in good shape. "Nah, replace the lifters and pushrods. I'll keep running it until it dies."
He leaves a blue smoke trail behind him everywhere he goes. He pulls it into "Jiffy" for an oil change when the light turns on. I told him he'd benefit from running something like Valvoline PBR or Red Line HP or something with a lot of ester to try to clean up the rings and see if that'll stop some of the oil loss and help the compression. "I can't afford that mess." Yet he can afford to smoke a pack a day (>$200/month). I just don't understand some people.
I have 40k more miles than his with none of the problems he has. That's why I care. That's why I use good quality oils and filters.
Another thing is that I like to support companies that support me and my hobbies. I don't see Kirkland or Traveler sponsoring racetracks and investing in R&D. That kind of stuff goes a long way with me.
Quaker State 400 presented by Walmart (Owner's of the SuperTech Brand) and knowing some people that work at one of the WPP facilities I know it's not true that they don't do R&D. They do often have R&D Partners such as Lubrizol.
For me its performance. That means good lugging torque, good WOT high rpm power AND good fuel mileage - and something that keeps the rings unstuck.
Not all oils do that - in fact FEW do that.
Case in point RGT in the Subaru.
The Subaru Idemitsu provide better low end torque, throttle response and fuel mileage than the RGT in there now.
So I likely wont use it again.
Valvoline's new ADVANCED 5W30 is by best reasonably priced synthetic I have experienced right now in a GF-5/6
What‘s your hypothesis on how your engine makes better low end torque on a different brand of oil?
Placebo.
400K in 7 years is a vehicle in constant use. That in itself is very conducive to long engine life. A company I was involved with got 900K miles from each of their delivery vans using Ford modular engines and M1. They had zero engine failures. In fact, aviation is no different. Engines in constant use are allowed to operate for many additional hours.
There are comparatively few high mile examples. There are plenty of low mileage failures by average operators. I always find it interesting to visit local dealerships and view the dead engines. Many of which were unknowingly abused by those who believe infrequent oil changes with the lowest quality "fuel diluted" and therefore "insufficient viscosity" oil is "just as good".
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I'll be honest. I know very few cars that are retired for an outright worn out engine. If it's an engine it's usually retired for a blown head gasket, a stretched timing chain or a broken timing belt. But more often its a trans failure. People just don't want to put the money or effort into a 20+ year old car with 250,000+ mi.
That of course assumes the manufacturers maintenance schedule has been followed. I have seen cars that the engine was worn out at 160,000 mi. They may have averaged a dealer oil change every 25,000 mi on conventional and I suspect those were the only changes they got.
I've also seen Ford's smoking at 60,000 mi that still had a FOMOCO Filter on them.
That of course assumes the manufacturers maintenance schedule has been followed. I have seen cars that the engine was worn out at 160,000 mi. They may have averaged a dealer oil change every 25,000 mi on conventional and I suspect those were the only changes they got.
I've also seen Ford's smoking at 60,000 mi that still had a FOMOCO Filter on them.
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The average person services their vehicle when something breaks. I’d contend that an engine serviced as recommended in the OM will last 200k or better regardless of brand of oil.
Which is why EV’s with no ICE have service management looking for replacement revenue.
Which is why EV’s with no ICE have service management looking for replacement revenue.
You lost me on this part. What's an EV and what's ICE?
Neither do I. Smoking is horrible. My Dad died in 1999 of lung cancer, and Mom died in 2007 after spending the last 6 years of her life tethered to an Oxygen bottle with severe (and I mean SEVERE) COPD. Trust me that is not the way you want to go out!
