We Are Obsessed But Does It Really Matter

Joined
Jan 9, 2005
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Sarasota, Florida
Sure, it's a hobby for many. But does it really make any difference what oil we use? Few are going to extract every mile possible out of their engines.

Many say that architects who design buildings know nothing about what it actually takes to build something. All they know is theory. I believe there are those here who are just this way, theory only.

I like to experiment in most things I decide to pursue. It could be the type of mulch in the garden, the construction of my model radio controlled jets, diving gear, and of course the use of motor oils. This is something I have studied with experiments when in high school a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. I guess it was a friend of my fathers who worked as a chemist in the oil department of Shell. Also, in part, why I studied biochemistry.

So what is there in doing the "usual" with little actual variation. Yes, I obviously like to push the envelope. But how does one move ahead doing just the usual? Take one for the team. For the new year I suggest branching out of the box and doing experiments. There must be something each of us can do where the risk is minimal but still revealing.

I have started by using a 5 grade oil in a Lincoln Navigator that is spec'ed for a 30 grade oil. I feel comfortable because I know that viscosity is temperature dependent. I am not pulling a 10,000lb trailer, on a 5 mile steep uphill grade, in Arizona in the middle of the summer. I have actually seen at least 1 MPG increase in fuel economy and a definite feeling of get-up-and-go. I feel comfortable raving it up when the oil has not reached operating temperature.

Some will say there will be additives that are not activated. They need a higher temperature. But then many say it's only the oil that does the job. It is plenty thick at these reduced temperatures so the MOFT must be fine. It comes back to using the viscosity for your particular application. I have provided evidence that a 20 grade oil can be used in a Ferrari Enzo that specs a 60 grade oil. And with several modes telling the engine is fine. But again, I am not running the car on the track. I am using a 30 grade oil in the 812 Superfast that is spec'ed for a 40 grade oil. Do I hear 20?

ali
 
There are differing architects involved with different stages of design and construction.
I've seen blueprints where the joining of steel elements is specifically designated. A small building can have scores of different joint designs specified. The floor plan can indeed be someone else's forte'.

Using a different grade oil for a while hardly qualifies as anything but the most rudimentary of "experiments".
 
IMO these experiments can take years to discover if there is any real world benefit or not. A 1 mpg gain can be obtained simply by improving driving habits or over inflating tires. Unless several engines are involved in the experiments, in controlled environments, with engine tear downs at lets say every 10K miles for 100K miles or more I don't think much if anything is being accomplished or proven. Nothing wrong with experimenting, but to expect people with some understanding of engines to believe the experiments, it has to be done right. JMO
 
Sure, it's a hobby for many. But does it really make any difference what oil we use? Few are going to extract every mile possible out of their engines.
Incorrect. As a driving enthusiast, I desire reliable performance. From my tuned F150's with 200K-355K trouble-free miles, to my over-stressed 33 pound boost turbocharged 4 cylinder sports cars, and my modified Jaguar F-Type V6 tuned to 475HP, soon to be 550+.

I want the performance, I want the long life, I don't want reliability issues.

It's no surprise I don't have the same reliability issues that others have. My 5.4L still gets oil to the Right cylinder head, unlike those using the "recommended" oil. I've doubled the common lifespan with that one, with no signs of problems. The 3.5 Ecoboost is similar. No timing chain issues, despite so many others crying the blues. My Lycoming powered Cessna is not having "morning sickness" like so many others.

Unlike others here, I actually was involved in engine design and testing. Both marine and automotive.

Seems to be a common theme here, quality oil, adequate viscosity, frequent changes.

Possibly of interest. Coming home from the dealership, me driving an Enzo, following my boss in the F1. Both were brand new that day. We had some epic times.

XSxkG5u.jpg
 
We've got Ford/GM/BMW/Hyundai/Kia with viscosity related timing chain issues, Hyundai/Kia with crankshaft issues, BMW with rod bearing failures, Honda/Acura with low tension piston rings failing at the slightest hint of wear, Toyota Prius with absurd oil consumption issues, Toyota with clogged piston oil drain holes and on and on and on.

Clearly, these are all oil related failures. It is not correct to say "it does not matter" because, clearly, it does.
 
Possibly of interest. Coming home from the dealership, me driving an Enzo, following my boss in the F1. Both were brand new that day. We had some epic times.
Not to take away from how cool this is, but the F1 was not brand new that day. Enzo production began a handful of years after F1 production stopped.
 
And Jeff’s old enough to remember when 5k would get folks shorts in a tight spot 😷
When Mobil1 came out, I continued on the 3K schedule. It was a personal struggle to extend OCI to 5K. I lost a lotta sleep over it... Probably high blood pressure, etc.
Don't get me started on running oil filters for 2 services... Or those stupid MityVac top side extractors!
 
Exactly, run whatever grade of Mobil 1 meets manufacturers specifications and the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle
 
Not to take away from how cool this is, but the F1 was not brand new that day. Enzo production began a handful of years after F1 production stopped.
Yes it was. It took years to "Federalize" it to meet emissions and crash safety requirements.

Also of note, while in Shelton Ferrari waiting for the boss to complete the transaction, I had a rather long conversation with the guitarist of a very, very famous band. I found him to be exceptionally articulate, intelligent as hell and nothing like (my impression of) his stage persona. I understood the secret to their success after that one, despite the fact that we did not talk music.
 
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Yes it was. It took years to "Federalize" it to meet emissions and crash safety requirements.

Also of note, while in Shelton Ferrari waiting for the boss to complete the transaction, I had a rather long conversation with the guitarist of a very, very famous band. I found him to be exceptionally articulate, intelligent as hell and nothing like (my impression of) his stage persona. I understood the secret to their success after that one, despite the fact that we did not talk music.
Eric Clapton is famous for his love of Ferraris.
 
Incorrect. As a driving enthusiast, I desire reliable performance. From my tuned F150's with 200K-355K trouble-free miles, to my over-stressed 33 pound boost turbocharged 4 cylinder sports cars, and my modified Jaguar F-Type V6 tuned to 475HP, soon to be 550+.

I want the performance, I want the long life, I don't want reliability issues.

It's no surprise I don't have the same reliability issues that others have. My 5.4L still gets oil to the Right cylinder head, unlike those using the "recommended" oil. I've doubled the common lifespan with that one, with no signs of problems. The 3.5 Ecoboost is similar. No timing chain issues, despite so many others crying the blues. My Lycoming powered Cessna is not having "morning sickness" like so many others.

Unlike others here, I actually was involved in engine design and testing. Both marine and automotive.

Seems to be a common theme here, quality oil, adequate viscosity, frequent changes.

Possibly of interest. Coming home from the dealership, me driving an Enzo, following my boss in the F1. Both were brand new that day. We had some epic times.

XSxkG5u.jpg
Just out of curiosity, what oils do you recommend? The more stout Euro oils or boutique oils?
 
If there is a problem with the timing chain, rings allowing oil consumption, bearings that wear out it is an issue with the engine hardware engineering. Not fluids. Every point of stress in an engine has a hotter oil producer that reduces the viscosity, so viscosity is variable. Oil flow is the only cure for that heat generated.
 
Every point of stress in an engine has a hotter oil producer that reduces the viscosity, so viscosity is variable. Oil flow is the only cure for that heat generated.
If oil flow were the only cure for the heat that is generated, then why are air-cooled motorcycle engines recommend to use heavier oils like 20W-50 as opposed to something like a 0W-16?

My point is that viscosity itself is a way to protect when increased heat is a factor.
 
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Is oil flow were the only cure for the heat that is generated, then why are air-cooled motorcycle engines recommend to use heavier oils like 20W-50 as opposed to something like a 0W-16?

My point is that viscosity itself is a way to protect when increased heat is a factor.
So… That is hardware engineering needed to the size of the bearing used. I have faith in the engineering. 20 weight oil has been around for 20 years. The bearing surface and flow has been proven. But the extreme pressures at MOFT creates much higher temperatures and at that point viscosity follows the temperature. Oil viscosity and oil temperature are inversely proportional, oil temperature and oil pressure are proportional. Oil flow is a way to control the oil heat.
Bad engineering cannot be fixed with viscosity…
 
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But the extreme pressures at MOFT creates much higher temperatures and at that point viscosity follows the temperature. Oil viscosity and oil temperature are inversely proportional.
Then doesn't this point to a thicker oil being beneficial to maintain adequate MOFT even when the temps get the highest and viscosity thins out the most?
 
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