We Are Obsessed But Does It Really Matter

[SeaJay]

Some of us who are fans of this site for various reasons could care less which oil goes into their car. I even used conventional dino a couple of times (once before a 2,500 mile round trip) in a vehicle that the manufacturer insisted (or required, don't remember the words) that synthetic must be used. No one died and the car lasted many, many more thousands of miles before I eventually traded it in.

I also used any old off brand gasoline if it was cheaper, even if those places didn't have any of the top tier stickers most BITOGers insist upon seeing before they fill up. I did follow the owners manual for the CVT in the car. The manual said the tranny fluid was lifetime, and I believed the manual. Never missed in 100k of miles.

Just my two cents, YMMV.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Sure, it's a hobby for many. But does it really make any difference what oil we use? Few are going to extract every mile possible out of their engines.

Many say that architects who design buildings know nothing about what it actually takes to build something. All they know is theory. I believe there are those here who are just this way, theory only.

I like to experiment in most things I decide to pursue. It could be the type of mulch in the garden, the construction of my model radio controlled jets, diving gear, and of course the use of motor oils. This is something I have studied with experiments when in high school a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. I guess it was a friend of my fathers who worked as a chemist in the oil department of Shell. Also, in part, why I studied biochemistry.

So what is there in doing the "usual" with little actual variation. Yes, I obviously like to push the envelope. But how does one move ahead doing just the usual? Take one for the team. For the new year I suggest branching out of the box and doing experiments. There must be something each of us can do where the risk is minimal but still revealing.

I have started by using a 5 grade oil in a Lincoln Navigator that is spec'ed for a 30 grade oil. I feel comfortable because I know that viscosity is temperature dependent. I am not pulling a 10,000lb trailer, on a 5 mile steep uphill grade, in Arizona in the middle of the summer. I have actually seen at least 1 MPG increase in fuel economy and a definite feeling of get-up-and-go. I feel comfortable raving it up when the oil has not reached operating temperature.

Some will say there will be additives that are not activated. They need a higher temperature. But then many say it's only the oil that does the job. It is plenty thick at these reduced temperatures so the MOFT must be fine. It comes back to using the viscosity for your particular application. I have provided evidence that a 20 grade oil can be used in a Ferrari Enzo that specs a 60 grade oil. And with several modes telling the engine is fine. But again, I am not running the car on the track. I am using a 30 grade oil in the 812 Superfast that is spec'ed for a 40 grade oil. Do I hear 20?

ali

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

We've got Ford/GM/BMW/Hyundai/Kia with viscosity related timing chain issues, Hyundai/Kia with crankshaft issues, BMW with rod bearing failures, Honda/Acura with low tension piston rings failing at the slightest hint of wear, Toyota Prius with absurd oil consumption issues, Toyota with clogged piston oil drain holes and on and on and on.

Clearly, these are all oil related failures. It is not correct to say "it does not matter" because, clearly, it does.

Is it oil or engineering compromises?

 

[Bill_W]

Then doesn't this point to a thicker oil being beneficial to maintain adequate MOFT even when the temps get the highest and viscosity thins out the most?

If the engineering is there to support it, otherwise you are assuming something. Does thicker blood work in your body? Thicker oil means less oil flow. The bearing itself is a pump that has extreme pressures to the MOFT. Again… wear is due to temperature increase. Flow decreases temperature. Tighter bearings, higher pressures.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

If the engineering is there to support it, otherwise you are assuming something. Does thicker blood work in your body? Thicker oil means less oil flow. The bearing itself is a pump that has extreme pressures to the MOFT.

Your blood does thicken and thin with the seasons as average ambient temperature change though.

I don't really buy this "thicker oil means less flow" business. I mean I get what you're saying, but "thick" oils like even say a 50 weight still flow plenty at operating temp, and are better are keeping parts from touching, so I'm not sure the slight amount less flow actually means anything.

I've read people say that thin oils run cooler than thick oils since they carry the heat away faster, but again, air/oil cooled engines that run hotter than water cooled engines, and have less stable operating temps, always recommend thicker oils no matter the OEM. Air-cooled Porsches for example (which are really oil-cooled) do not recommend 20 weight oils. If wear is about temp increase then the thicker oil should harm the engine instead of help, but that isn't the case.

 

[4WD]

When Mobil1 came out, I continued on the 3K schedule. It was a personal struggle to extend OCI to 5K. I lost a lotta sleep over it... Probably high blood pressure, etc.
Don't get me started on running oil filters for 2 services... Or those stupid MityVac top side extractors!

I knew some who did that - but a guy down in Laredo was already doing 10K in the early 80’s … so me moving from 3k to 5k/6 months was made easier …

 

[ripcord]

If the engineering is there to support it, otherwise you are assuming something. Does thicker blood work in your body? Thicker oil means less oil flow. The bearing itself is a pump that has extreme pressures to the MOFT. Again… wear is due to temperature increase. Flow decreases temperature. Tighter bearings, higher pressures.

A lot of people here assume that minor variations in viscosity at operating temperature have a large impact on actual flow rates in the engine. I'm not buying that a 5w-40 flows appreciably less than 0w-20 in engines with positive displacement oil pumps without data.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I think this forum really needs somebody like @kschachn to make a thread explaining why increased viscosity/MOFT overcomes the "drawback" of less flow and overpowers the increase in temperature compared to a thinner oil that flows a little faster through the bearings, and then sticky it for all to see.

I am nowhere near qualified to explain it, but there's a big misconception here about thinner oils and flow versus temp and how it does or does not relate to part on part contact inside an engine, and it's getting to the point of misinformation.

 

[4WD]

A lot of people here assume that minor variations in viscosity at operating temperature have a large impact on actual flow rates in the engine. I'm not buying that a 5w-40 flows appreciably less than 0w-20 in engines with positive displacement oil pumps without data.

It doesn’t - distribution might vary a hair - but moving the same GPM …
At 17°F … my pressure was 34 psi vs 31 psi in the summer … and when the oil reached 150° - back to 31 psi …
(low stage of variable pump) …

 

[Corollaman]

I use whatever viscosity the manufacturer recommends and change on a regular basis. I use the cheapest oil I can find that meets the specifications the manufacturer says to use. That being said I have three different vehicles that require three different viscosities I'm sure that if I used the cheapest 5w30 in all of them I doubt I'd have an oil related engine problem.

 

[Passport1]

I want the performance, I want the long life, I don't want reliability issues.

Agree 100%. This is an important aspiration for all men.

 

[Bill_W]

It doesn’t - distribution might vary a hair - but moving the same GPM …
At 17°F … my pressure was 34 psi vs 31 psi in the summer … and when the oil reached 150° - back to 31 psi …
(low stage of variable pump) …

Not so… Pressure is applied to parallel oil branches. If there is less resistance the flow will go there. Bearings just need feed pressure and create its own pump pressure. The main oil pumps purpose is to feed lubrication after it’s initial PSI to a ambient pressure location and that is where the lubrication is needed.

 

[4WD]

Not so… Pressure is applied to parallel oil branches. If there is less resistance the flow will go there. Bearings just need feed pressure and create its own pump pressure. The main oil pumps purpose is to feed lubrication after it’s initial PSI to an ambient pressure location and that is where the lubrication is needed.

What do you think I meant by distribution … I do hydraulics design as part of my job … Later

 

[Bill_W]

What do you think I meant by distribution … I do hydraulics design as part of my job … Later

Around and Around - Where the Oil Goes in Your Engine

Most people know to add oil to the top of their engines, and that oil drains out the bottom. Because I have worked in auto repair for 35 years, it is no mystery to me what happens between fi…

www.machinerylubrication.com

Notice the description of the oil spring pressure relief. High oil pressure can damage bearings

 

[mobilnissan1991]

Cujet, which oils and weight do you use in your 5.4 and Ecoboost? Always solid advice from you. Ive been running 10W30 syn at 5k oci in my 3.7 F150 with zero issues as opposed to 5W20. If you have any other suggestions as to what I should use, let me know.

Merry Christmas everyone from South Louisiana

 

[Malo83]

Agree 100%. This is an important aspiration for all men.

But I get all that with an off the shelf oil.

 

[Cujet]

Is it oil or engineering compromises?

we can engineer an engine to survive on just about any lubricant.

 

[Bill_W]

What do you think I meant by distribution … I do hydraulics design as part of my job … Later

Here is your question, I like Motorking’s answer.

Can too thick of oil be damaging?

Simply put. If an engine calls for 5w-30 and you run 20w-50 instead, aside from power loss and hydrodynamic friction, can damage to the bearings, hydraulic lifters, chain, rocker fulcrums, etc... occur from an oil being too viscous for the application? This includes long term wear.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[4WD]

Here is your question, I like Motorking’s answer.

Can too thick of oil be damaging?

Simply put. If an engine calls for 5w-30 and you run 20w-50 instead, aside from power loss and hydrodynamic friction, can damage to the bearings, hydraulic lifters, chain, rocker fulcrums, etc... occur from an oil being too viscous for the application? This includes long term wear.

bobistheoilguy.com

Stop throwing extremes - and ACTUALLY read exactly what I responded to …
this has been covered a 1000 times by Shannow and others …

 

[ripcord]

Agree 100%. This is an important aspiration for all men.

Two jokes in one. Well played