why do people still buy non-synthetic?

[jstutz]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
I've noticed that the less expensive synthetics like Supertech and Mag1 cost about the same as the higher-end conventional oils like GTX and Pennzoil. Why do people buy these non-synthetics when you can get a synthetic for the same price? Are they superior to cheap synthetics?


One reason i moved away from synthetics in some of my vehicles is they simply dont require anything special. I have full confidence that My older 4.3, 5.7 chevys and 2.0 fords will do great on dino. I run them all up to 6 to 7 K miles on quality dinos. I keep to to 5 if its ST.

Todays dinos appear to be very good oils and will protect the avg engine until the end of its life just fine.

Why would someone choose dino over cheap synthetics? I would because of quality control. I feel more confident that if I buy a name brand oil, Mobil, Valvoline, Pennzoil ect, that im getting the same product and that the chance of a "bottling issue" would be less.

For me the extra cost of good oil , once or twice a year, is not going to dictate what i use.

Like others have said, great oil is easy to fine at great deals if you watch for rebates, sales, and clearances.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: motorguy222
An oil that says "synthetic" may not be an actual synthetic, it may be a grp.3 oil which is a severely treated/hydro-treated mineral oil.

A grp.3 oil can be a very good oil but it is not a real syn.

You also have to consider that conventional oils are quite good now and syn. oils are not usually needed in about 97% of the cars on the road.




Ugh. You do realize that the ethylene for the grp iv fluid comes from the same cat cracker as the slack wax, and thus even your precious grp iv base is actually crude derived.

 

[KrisZ]

I went from conventional to synth. and back to conventional again in my Mazda 3 and I came to conclusion that synthetic oil is largely overhyped.

Before I switched to synthetic I had really high hopes for it based on reading BITOG. I expected all sorts of wonderful things to happen when I switch, like a whisper quiet engine during cold winter starts, improved fuel economy, engine that runs so smoothly and quietly that I would not even know when it's running.
But to my amazement none of that happened. I run PP and Castrol Syntec and for about 30k miles nothing happened that was different on dino. Then I switched back to dino and, you can probably already guess that, there was no difference again.

I came to realization that people on this board like to split hair over little things and their use of synthetics is largely driven by "feel good" motives rather than logic and reason.
I know that we have plenty of people that take full advantage of synthetic benefits, but most just do it because they read on the internet that synthetic is superior, so they use it without understanding if the superior aspects of synthetics even play a role in their application or duty cycle.

 

[pavelow]

Why do people still buy non-synthetic oil? Costs less, protects well, etc.

There's still room in the DIY marketplace for dino and syn oil.

 

[PhillyJoe]

I assume synthetic is better; even if just marginally.

Bottom line, when I can get synthetic for the price of conventional, why not? At least for the DIY.

When the dealer wants $75 for a synthetic oil and filter change, I would imagine most people opt for the $19.99 conventional/synblend special.

But all month AAP has had 5 qts Havoline synthetic and a P1 for $19.99 and 5 qt PYB with a Driveworks filter for $20.99; which one is the better value?

 

[Burt]

Because their engines last just fine w/o it and they wish to use their money elsewhere.

 

[Tdbo]

Originally Posted By: Burt
Because their engines last just fine w/o it and they wish to use their money elsewhere.


+1!

 

[bigt61]

And then you read about the new GM DI engines that will eat timing chains unless they run at least Dexos1. Synthetic oils are better - period. Whether your car needs, runs smoother or quieter on synthetic is debatable. Cars get better fuel mileage by 1 or 2% with synthetic - that's kinda nice. If your engine gets in a high stress situation - like overheating - or a severely low oil level - I'd rather have synthetic. That being said, there are engines that will go a million miles on dino. It's your wallet - what's important to you?

 

[bchannell]

As you can see there are many reasons "Why" those on here use cheaper dino oils. That is one of the great things about this site, it will allows you to educate yourself in what you actually "need" in the way of motor oil and then make an intelligent decision. Don't think some of the cheap dino oils as junk either. For instance, Super Tech is a decent oil, and when used in the right setting can save you money, IF that is your goal. Also, some of us here go for "need" and some go for all out protection, at all cost, then there's everything in between, and a host of just experimenters. It takes all kinds to make a world, and it's great they come here to relate their experience.
Every case seems just a bit different, take me for instance. In my '08 PT Cruiser I use a good dino oil, as luck would have it, right now it is ST 5W30. My reason? I do my own oil changes and don't go much over 4K, and my car is obviously always with me, ie. available for an oil change when needed. My driving habits are such and my trips are such that I can categorize my driving as normal, with hardly ever a trip under 10 miles. My wife's 2013 Altima has M1 0W20 in it, why? Becasue she uses her car for daily, short trips, and some long distance driving on weekends. Also, it is not here all the time when an oil change would normally be convenient, so syn oil allows more leeway in OCI, and better protection for short trip use. It's worth the extra cost to be able to extend an OCI when necessary on that car. If I don't get a chance to change it right on time, usually 5K, then I don't feel it's a big deal.

So, as you see, there is a lot of different reasoning into the choice of cheap vs. expensive.

 

[sciphi]

Can be cheaper.

Then again, one car is turbocharged, so it does need at least a semi-syn. That oil has shown to be beat to death by said turbo after 5000 miles, so full syn it is.

The other car, it's a feel-good thing. That, and the recommended interval according to the OLM ranges up past 10k miles at times. With syn it's shown to be fine for that distance.

 

[fdcg27]

For those who take advantage of the steals offered with MIRs, synthetic is really cheap to use, so there is no marginal cost for any marginal benefit.
I have a large stash of various syns bought FAR or close to it, so I have no real reason to use conventional.
If I didn't have a stash and were buying oil only as needed, I'd probably take a look at whatever was on special here and there and might well use conventional oil.
As others have noted in various threads, the line between synthetic and conventional oils is getting fuzzy and the marginal cost of synthetic oil has become smaller as conventional oils have improved to meet ever more demanding specs.
You wouldn't be treating your engine badly by using QSGB over QSUD or PYB over PP.
Too many cars have run too many miles on bulk conventional to think that syntetic is either needed or preferred.

 

[rfeir]

If you live where it gets very cold a syn of the 0W or 5W rating will flow faster causing less wear and a faster start. If you go for a once a year change conventional oil is a risk.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Originally Posted By: motorguy222

You can look at UOA's done by 2010 FX4, his results have shown that conv. does as well as syn.
2010 FX4

...that conv. does as well as syn.... for him.

Originally Posted By: tig1
Actually UOAs tell you very little about oil quality. Now it will tell you if the oil is contaminated with coolant, fuel, or dirt. Not much else of real value for the average engine.

Some truth to what was said above especially for one or two UOAs over the life of the engine, but with every OC being UOA'ed there is useful data that can be gleaned from them. However, with that said, I would be willing to bet anyone a case of whatever oil they want that two other things are true:

1. While there are applications and engines that NEED synthetic oil, most people who run synthetic oil DO NOT need it and simply use it as a placebo effect (i.e. cheap insurance, feels good, I heard it is good, etc.)

2. Even if my FX4 were to rack up 500,000+ miles on conventional oil, there would be nearly as many "yeah-buts". Such as:

a. How much longer the engine would have lasted if I would have used a synthetic instead of a conventional
b. How much longer the engine would have lasted if I would have used any oil other than a 5W-20
c. How although it worked for me, it would not work for some else because

Bottom line:
If synthetic is a cheap as a conventional, then there should not any arguments from anyone on the board when someone posts a UOA or other information stating they used a synthetic instead of a conventional. BUT in most cases a synthetic is NOT needed, however, people choose it for various reasons. There is NOTHING wrong with that, but folks should call a spade a spade (i.e. I want to use a synthetic for no other reason than I like it) and not "hide" behind some "developed rationale".

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: rfeir
If you live where it gets very cold a syn of the 0W or 5W rating will flow faster causing less wear and a faster start. If you go for a once a year change conventional oil is a risk.


You're right about extreme cold.
Still, back in the 'eighties I considered 10W-40 of any brand to be the one oil needed for all engines and all climates and I had plenty of below zero starts using it in various cars that had spent the night outside.
It wasn't all that many years ago that 10W-30 was considered the appropriate oil for all conditions.
My point is that while a conventional oil may not be optimal for really cold conditions, it will work and won't hurt the engine in any measurable way, unless you use some crazy thick grade and shear the oil pump drive.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: tig1

Actually UOAs tell you very little about oil quality. Now it will tell you if the oil is contaminated with coolant, fuel, or dirt. Not much else of real value for the average engine.


+2

Synthetics are so inexpensive in the US it is a nobrainer for ME to run. I spend more on lunch than the difference between 5 quarts of syn and 5 quarts of a quality dino like Mobil or PYB (and I do a yearly OCI). There is no question that synthetics are superior, even the Group III kind that some are trying to demonized here. We are all aware of the catastrophe when people ran dino in certain Mercedes that called for synthetics. If dinos were as good or almost as good lawsuits could have been avoided. Does everyone NEED to run syn? Of course, not. But synthetics still offer many benefits over dino.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Originally Posted By: tig1

Actually UOAs tell you very little about oil quality. Now it will tell you if the oil is contaminated with coolant, fuel, or dirt. Not much else of real value for the average engine.


+2

Synthetics are so inexpensive in the US it is a nobrainer for ME to run. I spend more on lunch than the difference between 5 quarts of syn and 5 quarts of a quality dino like Mobil or PYB (and I do a yearly OCI). There is no question that synthetics are superior, even the Group III kind that some are trying to demonized here. We are all aware of the catastrophe when people ran dino in certain Mercedes that called for synthetics. If dinos were as good or almost as good lawsuits could have been avoided. Does everyone NEED to run syn? Of course, not. But synthetics still offer many benefits over dino.


I've been telling myself the same for years.
However, if synthetics provide no better engine protection than do conventionals then any extra money spent buying them is wasted, as a certain mod is fond of pointing out.
Mercedes, as well as BMW, recommended thick grades of conventional oil for many years.
BMW did so up until 1998.
I don't recall that their engines had shorter lives then than they do now.
Some of the most durable Mercedes engines date from the dino era.
WRT UOAs telling you very little about oil quality, hogwash.
While wear metals levels are debatable as a measure of engine wear, TBN, TAN, viscosity and oxidation certainly do tell you a great deal about oil quality.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Only advantage I can agree with is maybe synths *possibly* can keep an engine cleaner,because after all they`re only cleaner/purer dinos per se. Somewhere on Mobil 1`s website it says ALL motor oil (regardless of what grp basestock they are) starts out as crude from the ground,and that synths are just highly refined and more *pure* mineral oils.

But heck,I love my faux synth *see sig*

 

[pscholte]

I use synthetics for the same reason I buy life insurance. If you live a long healthy lifetime then I suppose you can say that money is "wasted." But if your family had needed it......If your car runs forever on conventional without drama, then the money spent on synthetic could be considered "wasted" assuming you believe synthetic is no better than conventional. But I have the funds, and if it just happens it is indeed better in a moment of high stress, then I am happy to spend the money. I do find it puzzling that people will spend money on things of little consequence without much thought about it (I won't give examples so as not to step on anyone's toes), but oil which is indeed the lifeblood of your engine, causes many to pinch pennies.

 

[901Memphis]

I don't buy non synthetic, I like extended my drains.

 

[RTexasF]

My OEM warranty and extended warranty require an oil/filter change every six months or 5,000 miles period. The car is a 2008 and just turned 15,000 miles yesterday. Why would I use a synthetic oil? It would be a waste of money since in six months I might put 200 miles on the oil.