I have an example that shows why some of us don't trust a dealership. My cousin has an 03 4Runner and the dealer wants $75 to install a new cabin air filter. It costs less than $20 at their parts counter. To install it you open the glove box, remove one phillips screw, remove the old filter and slide in the new one. Oh, I forgot you have to open and close the passenger side door, too. If they charge about $50 for five minutes labor, imagine what they charge for other simple operations. Another 4Runner owner was charged extra for a five tire rotation, was assured that they checked all the tire pressures and that the spare was good to go, in the rotation. The problem. The spare was at home in his garage, and the front tire with a ding in the rim was still on the same front left location after the rotation. It's things like this that make people shy about trusting dealers. It was not an error that hurt the vehicle, at least not this time.
Why are 30K services considered as rip-offs?
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Here a good dealer stories involving one guy and his 1800 Volvo. No wonder I don't take mine to the dealer anymore. I edited the names out.
(Danika's Boss) charged me 4 grand to do what I considered minor work to an e-type (basically front end bushings and some other stuff). (The other dealer) replaced my transmission, and, literally a week later, the right front half shaft was laying on the ground. Thankfully, I was only driving in the Giant Eagle parking lot!
(Danika's Boss) charged me 4 grand to do what I considered minor work to an e-type (basically front end bushings and some other stuff). (The other dealer) replaced my transmission, and, literally a week later, the right front half shaft was laying on the ground. Thankfully, I was only driving in the Giant Eagle parking lot!
Wait a minute........
So those challenging the dealer "way-too-high-price" seem to not like the following benefits of dealer work:
1. Quality waiting room with up-to-date magazines and a plasma flat-screen that gets satellite TV.
2. Short wait times for your car to be finished.
3. Smarmy associates.
I wish I could afford every piece of automotive repair equipment, and have the time to get ASE-certified in order to DO IT ALL MYSELF. That's not to say that high-quality independent mechanics don't deserve business; THEY DO. They are the 1% minority that actually cares about you and the car for the most part. (Yes, and there are good dealers out there as well, but the majority are not.)
So those challenging the dealer "way-too-high-price" seem to not like the following benefits of dealer work:
1. Quality waiting room with up-to-date magazines and a plasma flat-screen that gets satellite TV.
2. Short wait times for your car to be finished.
3. Smarmy associates.
I wish I could afford every piece of automotive repair equipment, and have the time to get ASE-certified in order to DO IT ALL MYSELF. That's not to say that high-quality independent mechanics don't deserve business; THEY DO. They are the 1% minority that actually cares about you and the car for the most part. (Yes, and there are good dealers out there as well, but the majority are not.)
Michael, depends on the dealer and car. I know for my Dodge Ram, I wasn't going to pay for a brake "inspection", hose "inspection" and door hinge "lubrication".
They wanted $400 and no major fluid change other than oil. That to me, is a big ripoff. However, I will say that I do prefer to take my car to the dealer bc I think they know the vehicle better. When I chose to do that, I specify what I want done, which reminds me I have to put that Amsoil 5w-30 gear fluid in my car soon.
Dealers won't make much on the labor portion of your bill IF they actually do all the work correctly. That's a pretty big IF from what I have seen. The shop environment in most big dealerships is awful. You can't do any quality work whan you have four cars lined up for the day. One thing goes wrong and....What? Nothing ever goes wrong when YOU work on your car?
My friend sold a 1995 Nissan Maxima to a guy a few months ago. They kept in contact, and the first thing that happens is the CEL turns on.....my buddy explains to him how to pull the code from his ECU(for free), but the guy insists on taking it to the local Nissan dealership.
Long story short, they charged him $200 flat, just to clear his CEL light!
Let's face it, as bad as some dealer's/mechanics are, some of these consumer's deserve it! lol
Long story short, they charged him $200 flat, just to clear his CEL light!
Let's face it, as bad as some dealer's/mechanics are, some of these consumer's deserve it! lol
04 Dodge Dakota 4.7l V8 4x4, 30k mile:
Owner's manual, severe service:
1) Oil/filter change
2) Auto trans filter, fluid change
3) Replace spark plugs (copper plugs)
4) Rotate tires
5) few other inspect this, inspect that (front suspension, etc)
TOTAL OF ABOVE ~ $231.00, with coupons printed from dealer's website.
Dealer service dept, 30k mile service:
All of the above, plus:
1) Drain/fill front and rear differentials - $175 if synthetic fluid is needed. Service dept quote, "If we drain the fluid and you don't need synthetic, it will be cheaper than $175." Excuse me? You have the VIN and are a Dodge dealer. Don't you KNOW whether it has syn fluid without draining it?
2) Fuel injector/fuel system clean service - ~ $125
3) Transfer case drain/fill - can't remember price quote
TOTAL for above > $300
Yes, I did go to the dealer for the owner's manual services (coupon specials). But the additional services they tried to sell is why I am a little leery of the dealer and don't say, "do the 30,000 mile service".
btw--Someone else I know has a 02 Dakota, 4.7l V8 2WD and the dealership tried selling him a rear differential flush/fill and fuel injector cleaning service, too.
Owner's manual, severe service:
1) Oil/filter change
2) Auto trans filter, fluid change
3) Replace spark plugs (copper plugs)
4) Rotate tires
5) few other inspect this, inspect that (front suspension, etc)
TOTAL OF ABOVE ~ $231.00, with coupons printed from dealer's website.
Dealer service dept, 30k mile service:
All of the above, plus:
1) Drain/fill front and rear differentials - $175 if synthetic fluid is needed. Service dept quote, "If we drain the fluid and you don't need synthetic, it will be cheaper than $175." Excuse me? You have the VIN and are a Dodge dealer. Don't you KNOW whether it has syn fluid without draining it?
2) Fuel injector/fuel system clean service - ~ $125
3) Transfer case drain/fill - can't remember price quote
TOTAL for above > $300
Yes, I did go to the dealer for the owner's manual services (coupon specials). But the additional services they tried to sell is why I am a little leery of the dealer and don't say, "do the 30,000 mile service".
btw--Someone else I know has a 02 Dakota, 4.7l V8 2WD and the dealership tried selling him a rear differential flush/fill and fuel injector cleaning service, too.
JHZR2
Staff member
the #1 service IMO that makes a dealership job worthwhile is the coolant flush if they do it right...
Its such a mess and so difficult to get it all out on a normal system, then purged, etc...
That if they do it right (may even include a citric acid flush, etc.), its well worth the $100-150 they charge... especially if you have animals around.
One thing that I find humerous is how people will say that its not worth it to go to the dealer because you can do the work yourself for so much less money... but then claim that their time is too valuable to be driving the legal limit, so they have to drive much faster..
Its selective time-value, when its convenient to use whatever argument, whichever way...
JMH
Its such a mess and so difficult to get it all out on a normal system, then purged, etc...
That if they do it right (may even include a citric acid flush, etc.), its well worth the $100-150 they charge... especially if you have animals around.
One thing that I find humerous is how people will say that its not worth it to go to the dealer because you can do the work yourself for so much less money... but then claim that their time is too valuable to be driving the legal limit, so they have to drive much faster..
Its selective time-value, when its convenient to use whatever argument, whichever way...
JMH
It's quite possible they get more out of doing their own repairs than the just $$ savings. Some of consider it time well spent.
I've found dealers to have the highest shop rates by far with no real guarantee the work will be done any better than a good independent shop. Dealers typically want the service department to cover the overhead for the whole dealership. That's likely much higher than the overhead of any independent shop...
I've found dealers to have the highest shop rates by far with no real guarantee the work will be done any better than a good independent shop. Dealers typically want the service department to cover the overhead for the whole dealership. That's likely much higher than the overhead of any independent shop...
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The only difference is whether you get any value for your $$. Way too much is dependent upon getting your $$$ NOW in each and every service.
Let me add that the absolute best service value I ever received was my 12k service at my BMW dealer for my 1978 320i. For $150 the valves were adjusted, plugs and points (they still had points back then), oil and filter, rear brakes adjusted, all four tires rebalanced and rotated, and every hinge/lube point was lubed. I went through the parts list and I would have been hard pressed to match them myself in the aftermarket. There the owner was also their master technician.
I've done enough budgetary work and program mangement to understand the cost of overhead. Their hourly rates don't shock me too much. It's things like the extras that even the "honest" dealers tack on to factory recommended service without telling you they are extra and not required... and sometimes denying they are extra when asked.quote:
Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Whether downright upright or downright dirty..it doesn't matter too much when you have so many people extracting a living off of your service $$. You've got the owner, service manager, parts manager, parts counter person, service writer, lady who takes your money, the mechanic ..the massive physical square footage of the facility.
I think that's true in more ways than one. On a separate, earlier trip to the dealership (see post above), the dealership service dept admitted that I would be better off buying synthetic oil some place else (Wal-mart, AAP, AZ) and bringing it to them rather than buying it from them.
Another case in point is Edmunds.com's article about car salesmen:
Edmunds' Confessions of a Car Salesman
To summarize, in this article, an editor gets hired as a car salesman at several different dealerships over the course of a few months, then reports back to Edmunds.com on "how it is". In at least one instance, the undercover reporter admits that he was sent to the service dept to find sales leads:
So, the dealer charging more for services in service department generates a lot of $$$ by itself. Plus, they can generate more sales leads, again increasing $$$ for dealership. Churn, churn, churn.
I know this guy that brought his synthetic oil and his car to the dealership (Ford) for an oil change. He was a waiting customer and watched his car being worked on. The slimeball oil change tech proceeded to put his expensive synthetic oil in his toolbox, and filled his car with the bulk ****! He ran into the shop area yelling and screaming at the tech. Well in the end that tech lost his job and the guy got a free 2 oil changes- which he never used because he will never go back to that stealer, um uh dealer.
Personally it is a high mark up for basic simple maintnenace that any one can do.
I mean, 30$ for oil change with synthetic, 20$ for gasket and filter for the trans and 30$ for syn fluid for the trans, and maybe 15$ for cabin air filter, 15$ for air filter. SO for maybe 110$ in good oil and parts plus 15 min for oil change, 15 min for cabin air filter, 5 min for air filter and 2 hrs( cumulative maybe 45 min actual) for trans filter/drain/refill your paying 240$, 30 min for tire rotation?? Oh I guess you could throw in 10$ for a bottle of techtron and 30 min to remove and clean your throttle body. basic simple maitnenance.
I mean, 30$ for oil change with synthetic, 20$ for gasket and filter for the trans and 30$ for syn fluid for the trans, and maybe 15$ for cabin air filter, 15$ for air filter. SO for maybe 110$ in good oil and parts plus 15 min for oil change, 15 min for cabin air filter, 5 min for air filter and 2 hrs( cumulative maybe 45 min actual) for trans filter/drain/refill your paying 240$, 30 min for tire rotation?? Oh I guess you could throw in 10$ for a bottle of techtron and 30 min to remove and clean your throttle body. basic simple maitnenance.
Somebody said that you never hear about good dealers on the Internet.
Yes, you do. It's just people don't jam those threads with 1800 views and 250 replies. People seem to be more concerned about WHO and WHAT to stay away from. I always try to post about good customer service.
I have many examples of why not to take a car to a dealership. But I'm not gonna waste my time typing them. My brother trained to be a service writer at a very large Chevy Dealership in Alabama. He quit about 1-1/2 days into the job after training due to shady practices.
Yes, you do. It's just people don't jam those threads with 1800 views and 250 replies. People seem to be more concerned about WHO and WHAT to stay away from. I always try to post about good customer service.
I have many examples of why not to take a car to a dealership. But I'm not gonna waste my time typing them. My brother trained to be a service writer at a very large Chevy Dealership in Alabama. He quit about 1-1/2 days into the job after training due to shady practices.
JHZR2
Staff member
Even with a cartridgew flter, Ive yet to see a 15 minute oil change done with the care that I do mine...
I think your times might be a little bit off.
JMH
I think your times might be a little bit off.
JMH
This is why im going to OEC Job training that my high school offers next year, and why I will be going to UTI after I graduate. I don't want things like this to be said about my shop. Once I graduate from UTI- and get 4 or 5 years work experience working for the man; I'm going to open an honest shop, do honest work and offer honest prices- and I will get customers. It's as simple as that- people recognize good work when they see it- and if you offer good work with good prices- and make good friends with your customers- you make good money.
to all the honest shops.
My current Subaru dealer seems pricey but all service is free through a 3% kickback from Chase issued Subaru Mastercard. So I am indifferent to it.
My last Honda dealer only charged $62/hr instead of typical $70-$80 that decent independants do in the area. They never performed a single service outside what was prescribed not in the manual. Also there timing belt replacement was cheaper by $50-$100 and had a one year warranty on parts/labor.
Maybe I am just lucky but no "bad dealer" issues on my end.
My last Honda dealer only charged $62/hr instead of typical $70-$80 that decent independants do in the area. They never performed a single service outside what was prescribed not in the manual. Also there timing belt replacement was cheaper by $50-$100 and had a one year warranty on parts/labor.
Maybe I am just lucky but no "bad dealer" issues on my end.
I went to the dealer yesterday- i had to buy a spark plug wire removal tool, as it is very hard on the a3 jettas to remove the wires with out damaging the plug wires.
Me:"I'd like to get the plug wire removal tool- for my 97 GLX'
guy:"We don't sell parts
Me:"I got one from you guys for a friend jsut a couple of months ago"
Him:"nope- don't carry them- never did man"
Me(sort of agitated):"Well how do you expect people to change there plugs?"
him:"We don't"
Thats where i just walked out. Jim ellis Volkswagen on Peachtree industrial Rd. in Chamblee, GA
Me:"I'd like to get the plug wire removal tool- for my 97 GLX'
guy:"We don't sell parts
Me:"I got one from you guys for a friend jsut a couple of months ago"
Him:"nope- don't carry them- never did man"
Me(sort of agitated):"Well how do you expect people to change there plugs?"
him:"We don't"
Thats where i just walked out. Jim ellis Volkswagen on Peachtree industrial Rd. in Chamblee, GA
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