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Who's Looking Forward to the Release of the 2022 Subaru WRX?
- Thread starter john_pifer
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The FA20s still have rod bearing and valvetrain issues, glass transmissions, and only a viscous center diff with no front/rear LSD. Not bad overall though as I understand there's only so much you can put in a car in a given price range and to not compete with your highest available model. Not sure how the new engine is but if there's anything we learned from subaru is they'll ignore any known defects.
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Looking at Subaru’s teaser video, rev limit has come down by 500 RPM to 6000.
It was pointless to rev the FA20 out, anyway, as it didn’t reward you with power all the way to redline.
It was pointless to rev the FA20 out, anyway, as it didn’t reward you with power all the way to redline.
The FA20 is an open deck block with brittle pistons and is not indestructable. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2749732
Thats 83 pages about 2015+ WRX engines failing for various reasons. Things break, especially with boost and hooligan drivers owning many of them.
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Few, if any engines nowadays are built like the 2JZ where they have absurd levels of capacity for added power. Once people start tuning outside the boundaries and applying bolt ons, reliability goes down. That's to be expected. That's why you can buy upgraded connecting rods, pistons, and blocks if you're going to be running added boost or giant turbos.
Of the fully stock ones that end up with issues, I wonder how many of those are driven by "bros" who use the "sweet" twin-scroll turbo to WOT it in tall gears at low RPMs instead of downshifting. Direct injection turbo manuals can be a disaster in the wrong hands. There's only so much protection manufacturers can build in to save people from themselves, and is another reason why manuals are disappearing.
To paint the FA20 as an inherently defective platform is nothing but a joke.
Few, if any engines nowadays are built like the 2JZ where they have absurd levels of capacity for added power. Once people start tuning outside the boundaries and applying bolt ons, reliability goes down. That's to be expected. That's why you can buy upgraded connecting rods, pistons, and blocks if you're going to be running added boost or giant turbos.
Of the fully stock ones that end up with issues, I wonder how many of those are driven by "bros" who use the "sweet" twin-scroll turbo to WOT it in tall gears at low RPMs instead of downshifting. Direct injection turbo manuals can be a disaster in the wrong hands. There's only so much protection manufacturers can build in to save people from themselves, and is another reason why manuals are disappearing.
To paint the FA20 as an inherently defective platform is nothing but a joke.
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I’ll start by saying I don’t have a dog in the current-gen-WRX fight, except that my FXT has the same engine, which is just a pleasure to drive, even with a CVT. I’ve also driven the new global platform in the form of a ‘17 Impreza, which was notably better than its predecessor. I’m also basing the following on my past experience with several Subies.
My first Subaru was an ‘06 WRX TR (Tuner Ready, aka, basest of base models, essentially). It had a garish hood scoop and large Brembo brakes and a solidity that just blew me away. It was also one of the few economy sports sedans with over 200 HP. Compared to other vehicles I had and then test-drove, it was the most solidly built. On angled inclines it never seemed to flex or creak or give and just seemed super solid in all situations. I ended up trading it for an ‘07 Civic Si, which I now consider THE biggest vehicle mistake I ever made. I really liked that car.
My third Subaru was an ‘08 STI (hatch). Unlike the ‘15+ WRX (and FXT), it didn’t have a twin-scroll turbo (nor does it to date - poor ancient EJ257…) While it had a good amount of turbo lag, it induced involuntary yelps from passengers when I shifted to 2nd early (< 3k RPM) and floored it. The boost (and torque) would kick in violently, always putting a smile on my face. So, while it was never the fastest car on the road, it was likely one of the more capable. It was also super fun at auto-cross. I was lucky enough to be the passenger in a fellow STI hatch owner during his auto-cross run and that was even more of a rush. I was always conservative with my clutch, so driving with someone who had mastered the moderate clutch-dump and left-foot-braking was a treat. I learned a lot from that guy. I did just OK. Like I said, I drove way too conservatively. The STI corrected for any mistake I made and just kept true. It was pretty impressive to try and push a car to its limits and for it to laugh in your face, saying, “try again!”
Now, I haven’t driven the ‘15 WRX and I have no desire to. I‘d rather a hatch or, even better, a wagon.
The next WRX (or STI) will have to be absolutely great, a combination of what I loved about my previous ‘06 WRX and ‘08 STI, for me to even consider it. I hate to admit it, but I’ve gotten used to the benefits of additional ride height and ease of use from an auto. While my WRX was easy on the left leg, the STI had a monstrously stiff clutch (relatively speaking, of course). I’d much rather a stick Forester XT with a stick and at least a rear LSD, to be honest. I’d even been happy with a stick Outback XT with the same.
Regarding claims that Subaru doesn’t take care of their owners, I simply haven’t found that to be true. Whether you consider it a good thing or a bad thing, Subaru has offered extended warranties on their CVT’s and, for me FXT, on the rear hatch mechanism and, most recently, the electronic power steering gear box. I hadn’t even read of more than on or a few issues with the hatch and the EPS was completely unknown to me, and I’m on the Subaru forums pretty frequently; however, I’ll admit that I haven’t as of receipt of the extension, gone out of my way to search for the issues.
So, all of that is to say that, based on my history with Subarus, along with my current FXT, I can’t imagine anyone having anything negative to say about the current-gen WRX, unless you want to critique it’s econobox interior (for the most part) and lack of sophistication. Why anyone would expect the WRX to be anything but a raw, faster version of its baby brothers the Impreza is beyond me. Complain about the stiffness? Please. Lack of LSD’s at this price point? Come on!
Finally, comparing this vehicle to a RWD, tone-down pony car is ridiculous. The Camaro and Mustang have come along way from their good in straight-lines-only days, but they can’t be expected to compete with something like a WRX in the twisties, given the same tires and driver. Besides, both of the others (ESPECIALLY the Camaro) feels like a coffin with its poor visibility compared to the WRX. While I plan to cross-shop these vehicles in the future (used), I won’t expect them to behave the same. I’m a relatively conservative driver and will always have at least one AWD vehicle, so having something like an eco boost Mustang might just suit me better than something like a WRX. Like I said, the Mustang isn’t like it’s solid rear axle predecessor, so it’s not like it’s completely incompetent in the corners. It’s just not the same as taking a WRX to the limits. Or so I supposed. As I mentioned, I’m basing this on perceived improvements over my previous WRX’s, and how good the new ‘17 Impreza handled compared to previous iterations.
My first Subaru was an ‘06 WRX TR (Tuner Ready, aka, basest of base models, essentially). It had a garish hood scoop and large Brembo brakes and a solidity that just blew me away. It was also one of the few economy sports sedans with over 200 HP. Compared to other vehicles I had and then test-drove, it was the most solidly built. On angled inclines it never seemed to flex or creak or give and just seemed super solid in all situations. I ended up trading it for an ‘07 Civic Si, which I now consider THE biggest vehicle mistake I ever made. I really liked that car.
My third Subaru was an ‘08 STI (hatch). Unlike the ‘15+ WRX (and FXT), it didn’t have a twin-scroll turbo (nor does it to date - poor ancient EJ257…) While it had a good amount of turbo lag, it induced involuntary yelps from passengers when I shifted to 2nd early (< 3k RPM) and floored it. The boost (and torque) would kick in violently, always putting a smile on my face. So, while it was never the fastest car on the road, it was likely one of the more capable. It was also super fun at auto-cross. I was lucky enough to be the passenger in a fellow STI hatch owner during his auto-cross run and that was even more of a rush. I was always conservative with my clutch, so driving with someone who had mastered the moderate clutch-dump and left-foot-braking was a treat. I learned a lot from that guy. I did just OK. Like I said, I drove way too conservatively. The STI corrected for any mistake I made and just kept true. It was pretty impressive to try and push a car to its limits and for it to laugh in your face, saying, “try again!”
Now, I haven’t driven the ‘15 WRX and I have no desire to. I‘d rather a hatch or, even better, a wagon.
The next WRX (or STI) will have to be absolutely great, a combination of what I loved about my previous ‘06 WRX and ‘08 STI, for me to even consider it. I hate to admit it, but I’ve gotten used to the benefits of additional ride height and ease of use from an auto. While my WRX was easy on the left leg, the STI had a monstrously stiff clutch (relatively speaking, of course). I’d much rather a stick Forester XT with a stick and at least a rear LSD, to be honest. I’d even been happy with a stick Outback XT with the same.
Regarding claims that Subaru doesn’t take care of their owners, I simply haven’t found that to be true. Whether you consider it a good thing or a bad thing, Subaru has offered extended warranties on their CVT’s and, for me FXT, on the rear hatch mechanism and, most recently, the electronic power steering gear box. I hadn’t even read of more than on or a few issues with the hatch and the EPS was completely unknown to me, and I’m on the Subaru forums pretty frequently; however, I’ll admit that I haven’t as of receipt of the extension, gone out of my way to search for the issues.
So, all of that is to say that, based on my history with Subarus, along with my current FXT, I can’t imagine anyone having anything negative to say about the current-gen WRX, unless you want to critique it’s econobox interior (for the most part) and lack of sophistication. Why anyone would expect the WRX to be anything but a raw, faster version of its baby brothers the Impreza is beyond me. Complain about the stiffness? Please. Lack of LSD’s at this price point? Come on!
Finally, comparing this vehicle to a RWD, tone-down pony car is ridiculous. The Camaro and Mustang have come along way from their good in straight-lines-only days, but they can’t be expected to compete with something like a WRX in the twisties, given the same tires and driver. Besides, both of the others (ESPECIALLY the Camaro) feels like a coffin with its poor visibility compared to the WRX. While I plan to cross-shop these vehicles in the future (used), I won’t expect them to behave the same. I’m a relatively conservative driver and will always have at least one AWD vehicle, so having something like an eco boost Mustang might just suit me better than something like a WRX. Like I said, the Mustang isn’t like it’s solid rear axle predecessor, so it’s not like it’s completely incompetent in the corners. It’s just not the same as taking a WRX to the limits. Or so I supposed. As I mentioned, I’m basing this on perceived improvements over my previous WRX’s, and how good the new ‘17 Impreza handled compared to previous iterations.
@OppositeLocK is exactly right about bRoS who tear up their WRXs trying to tune them to make Mustang and Camaro V8 levels of power and torque. O
I beat on my 2016 WRX up one side of the Smoky Mountains, down the other side, and back up, across the country to Colorado and Indiana, and down to the Gulf Coast, redlining it every day, with zero problems.
But, then, I didn’t crank up the boost trying to achieve 400 ft-lbs of torque at 1500 RPM.
I beat on my 2016 WRX up one side of the Smoky Mountains, down the other side, and back up, across the country to Colorado and Indiana, and down to the Gulf Coast, redlining it every day, with zero problems.
But, then, I didn’t crank up the boost trying to achieve 400 ft-lbs of torque at 1500 RPM.
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From that "my engine blew up" thread:
"It was modded when I bought it. The owner had a Cobb Ap and was running the wrong map. I was getting feedback knock often and the Dam value was dropping frequently . I changed to a Cobb intake vs the eBay one the car came with , and got a protune by a known tuner with a good rep"
Modded? Check.
Wrong map? Check.
Ebay parts? Check.
It blew up? Bet nobody saw that coming.
"It was modded when I bought it. The owner had a Cobb Ap and was running the wrong map. I was getting feedback knock often and the Dam value was dropping frequently . I changed to a Cobb intake vs the eBay one the car came with , and got a protune by a known tuner with a good rep"
Modded? Check.
Wrong map? Check.
Ebay parts? Check.
It blew up? Bet nobody saw that coming.
User TiGeo has roughly doubled the power of his Golf 4 motion and posts UOAs here with over 60k miles of driving.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ned-etc-60-8k-qsud-euro-5w40-3-7k-oci.342241/
and he's not alone. Many IS38 bolt on upgraded golfs running around.
A cast iron block, lower compression ratio make it more robust. The FA20 is optimized to spool quick, have great emissions and fuel economy, not stand up to heavy mods.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ned-etc-60-8k-qsud-euro-5w40-3-7k-oci.342241/
and he's not alone. Many IS38 bolt on upgraded golfs running around.
A cast iron block, lower compression ratio make it more robust. The FA20 is optimized to spool quick, have great emissions and fuel economy, not stand up to heavy mods.
Yep, context is everything.
There are also many people who are stock and had less than 10,000 miles on there needing it replaced under warranty. Let's be fair to the data.
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Yes, let's be fair to anecdotal evidence on the internet.
There are stories that stock engines failed early.
Therefore the engine is weak and unreliable.
That is an awful argument.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
There are failures with each make. Subaru is no different. @OppositeLocK you’re getting too emotionally involved with this thread…
You cherry picked a negligent modified example from the anecdotal evidence and i did the same for low mileage stock cases. i doubt very many people made accounts on NASIOC just to make up a story about exactly where, when, and how their FA20 died. There is enough data to reasonably conclude that the FA20 may not last a long time under mods and abuse.
Another way to gauge the reliability of an engine that i use: Look at Ebay/classified sites for used engines for sale. Do they cost a lot or only like $800 due to low demand? Are there people selling cores? Has the aftermarket stepped in to sell built engines?
I’ve had 2 coworkers with mid-2010-15 ish models. Both sold theirs after a few years. One moved to a focus RS. I drove both. While the Subaru had all of the testosterone of a race car, the RS seemed to put the power to the ground with more finesse and comfort, and it absolutely had the goods, if not more goods, when asked. one of the owners needed a new HG in its second year. He was autoX and rallyXing his.
The '22 BRZ looks interesting with the Non Turbo FA24 with 228 HP. This engine is built to turbo. So it should be very durable. The FA engine has won Ward's Top 10 Engines three times since 2013. I have the Turbo FA 20 in my forester. Its a beast.
