I believe the FA20 was built first for N/A use in the BRZ/86. I've personally lifted a factory shortblock FA20 and i'm not strong. Its light for engine, very light. It was modified for turbo use later in the WRX. How well will the FA24 be built? Who knows, its so much about emissions and profits these days with all makers.
Who's Looking Forward to the Release of the 2022 Subaru WRX?
- Thread starter john_pifer
- Start date
I'm going down the rabbit hole on this but here's some more evidence:
This retailer sells a complete kit for replacing your FA block. https://crawfordperformance.com/col...ubaru-short-block-installation-kitwrx-14-fxt#
They also stock and sell OEM shortblocks from Subaru as well as built blocks. Like its a common thing. Only $1923 for a factory shortblock is cheap.
I wouldn't let it stop me from buying a new WRX. Perhaps stop me from buying somebodies used one.
This retailer sells a complete kit for replacing your FA block. https://crawfordperformance.com/col...ubaru-short-block-installation-kitwrx-14-fxt#
They also stock and sell OEM shortblocks from Subaru as well as built blocks. Like its a common thing. Only $1923 for a factory shortblock is cheap.
I wouldn't let it stop me from buying a new WRX. Perhaps stop me from buying somebodies used one.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 631
These "rule of thumb" methods are nothing but drivel, sorry.
You're a random person on the internet and you saying "there are enough examples" means absolutely nothing. How many? Out of how many samples? What maintenance? What driving conditions? How many owners?
There is nothing inherently defective about the FA20's design. Any engine could fail even under the best conditions. Unless you have something more tangible than random forum posts, what you're saying doesn't have merit.
Don't take my word for it. Price out some engines. 2016 Accord engines going for nothing. 2016 WRX engines ranging from $1500 as a non running core to $4490 for used good LKQ and on up from there. A 2016 Focus ST engines $2000-2500. The more common the failure, the higher the used engine prices. The exception to this rule is anything that is popular to transplant over to other cars like a Ford 5.0 or GM 6.2 because those go in all manor of hot rod projects. 2016 BRZ engines cost a lot as well. A used 370z engine is cheap. How else can you explain it? its not like FA20 vehicles are super rare or anything. They certainly get crashed a lot and sent to wrecking yards.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 631
Wasn't planning on it.
Anywoo, yes john_pfifer I'm curious. How much fatter will it be? Perhaps lighter?
Over the years it hasn't gained too much pork or luxury but it has lost some of its dirt road appeal. That's something I've enjoyed with each of my Subarus, long suspension travel or at least longer than one of a competitor.
Unfortunately every manufacturer has to make something that sells, and these days a car has to have features one would only find in a luxury car from years past.
So many complaints: hard ride, noisy, shifter is notchy, bogs down. So let's add an adjustable suspension, sound deadening insulation, automatic transmission, two turbos. Then, "I cant believe how complicated cars are these days, why can't car makers produce a simple fun car".
I hope the new WRX makes a good new STI.
Over the years it hasn't gained too much pork or luxury but it has lost some of its dirt road appeal. That's something I've enjoyed with each of my Subarus, long suspension travel or at least longer than one of a competitor.
Unfortunately every manufacturer has to make something that sells, and these days a car has to have features one would only find in a luxury car from years past.
So many complaints: hard ride, noisy, shifter is notchy, bogs down. So let's add an adjustable suspension, sound deadening insulation, automatic transmission, two turbos. Then, "I cant believe how complicated cars are these days, why can't car makers produce a simple fun car".
I hope the new WRX makes a good new STI.
So you can't explain the high used engine prices, even with factory short blocks selling for under 2k. Or the Crawford Performance company who makes it their central business to sell EJ&FA engine blocks and installation parts kits? They even have some nice technical articles about what fails and why. They must sell a lot to sustain that and have a dealer network going.
"Inherently defective" would mean they would have to do a recall or offer an extended warranty, like Hyundai Kia did for tons of engines. I don't see Subaru or Toyota volunteering any warranty extensions on the FA series. They did have a class action suit against the 2012-2017 EJ25s, that forced them to extend warranty to 100k for those who applied in time. In the dirt bike world they just tell you to rebuild it after so many hours, high performance = less life span. Google "BMW Engine Failure" you can see they have a lot of instances as well, across many models. You don't break your Prius engine unless your Tyler Hoover putting Nitrous on it.
Previous owner of my '16 put over $30,000 in mods into the car, most of that for a built motor. Figure it had in the neighborhood of 450 HP. From the outside it looked pretty much like any other WRX. It had some engine noise that I couldn't figure out. Coulda been top end or bottom end, so never dared to explore it's full potential, but even at 5/10ths, it was fun to drive and sounded great with twin turbos.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I don’t really ever see threads on either SF.org nor NASIOC.com about FA20DIT failures. People like to build on to these engines, be it with bolt-ons or a fully built block with forged internals and all supporting mods. With that said, it may be popular, but likely not common. It’s probably more common for someone to flash a Stage 1 tune or bolt on some mods with or without an appropriate tune. What I’m getting at: I wouldn’t use the prices of a performance engine builder as a basis for failure rate. That just seems like flawed logic.
The correlation between the cost of short blocks and failure rate is interesting. I’ve never thought of that. I’m. It sure of that correlation is accurate, because I don’t k ow what the demand is for each of the blocks you listed, but it’s an interesting point. HOWEVER, unless you have failure rate data, I’m going to unfortunately say that your logic is baseless and irrelevant.
Both of you: you either have the data or you don’t. Chrysler is usually at the bottom of the barrel in CR reliability surveys, but I take those surveys with a big ‘ol grain of salt. If CR were our litmus for reliability, name a more reliable sports car than the WRX at that price point. I think you’ll find they all have their failure modes and none seem to be immune from people complaining about this or that about each online.
EJ != FA.
The high-rev’ing N/A FA D-4S dual-injection != FADIT.
The correlation between the cost of short blocks and failure rate is interesting. I’ve never thought of that. I’m. It sure of that correlation is accurate, because I don’t k ow what the demand is for each of the blocks you listed, but it’s an interesting point. HOWEVER, unless you have failure rate data, I’m going to unfortunately say that your logic is baseless and irrelevant.
Both of you: you either have the data or you don’t. Chrysler is usually at the bottom of the barrel in CR reliability surveys, but I take those surveys with a big ‘ol grain of salt. If CR were our litmus for reliability, name a more reliable sports car than the WRX at that price point. I think you’ll find they all have their failure modes and none seem to be immune from people complaining about this or that about each online.
EJ != FA.
The high-rev’ing N/A FA D-4S dual-injection != FADIT.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
What a terrible way to live with a car? $30k!? That’s used GT-R money!
If I had treated my ‘08 STI as if it was destined to have ringland failure or that it was going to spin a bearing I simply wouldn’t be able to live with it!
If you can find me a GT-R for $30K that doesn't look like this or isn't over 100,000 miles, I'll give ya a $10,000 finders fee.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
$30k!? Was the WRX FREE!?
My point still stands. Who builds a $30k monster (plus the cost of the donor car - do I really have to explain this addition) and babies it (5/10ths, you wrote)
Well, I assume HE didn't baby it before it started making engine noise. I babied it because I didn't want the motor to fit loosely in a 5 gallon bucket.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 631
So the engines are prone to failure and that in turn drives their value? Seems contradictory to me.
Either way, the problem is Subaru has a community that is huge on mods. So without cutting that all out and just focusing on stock vehicles it's disingenuous to gauge its reliability as a whole when modding and tuning have so many variables, far more than in how someone simply treats a stock vehicle.
It would not surprise me if the WRX/STI has a higher engine failure rate than a Corolla, Jetta, Passat, etc. But it also probably has the highest modification rate on the market today, so how much of that would contribute to it?
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
You mean you didn’t add that $30k onto the KBB value for the car when you bought it?
Also, ballsy, buying a car with $30k in mods! Well, unless you got it for less than KBB value.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2019
- Messages
- 631
The other problem with a lot of these industry "reliability" ratings is it's really a measure of how many complaints a new owner has and how many times they have to go to the dealer to get it resolved. That's another reason why some luxury vehicles have poorer ratings as the owners are incredibly picky. I bought an entry level BMW and I demand more because of the badge!
It doesn't take into consideration that an FA20 in a BRZ has Toyota's D4S which should help longevity and carbon build up, than something like the engine found in a GTI which will probably need a carbon cleaning after 30,000 miles.
Most people know going in they don't get back anywhere near what they spend on mods when they sell. Especially when something is broken.
Wow....he spent mustang gt price to have almost mustang gt power. On top of buying the car. Yikes. This is why I think the wrx kindof sucks. In an evo, you would have 7-800whp for 30k. Reliably. Evo was a great car.
Subaru had some defective parts in their wrx and sti engines. I believe for 201i and 2019+, they got it sorted.
