Who's Looking Forward to the Release of the 2022 Subaru WRX?

[Ws6]

I don’t really ever see threads on either SF.org nor NASIOC.com about FA20DIT failures. People like to build on to these engines, be it with bolt-ons or a fully built block with forged internals and all supporting mods. With that said, it may be popular, but likely not common. It’s probably more common for someone to flash a Stage 1 tune or bolt on some mods with or without an appropriate tune. What I’m getting at: I wouldn’t use the prices of a performance engine builder as a basis for failure rate. That just seems like flawed logic.

The correlation between the cost of short blocks and failure rate is interesting. I’ve never thought of that. I’m. It sure of that correlation is accurate, because I don’t k ow what the demand is for each of the blocks you listed, but it’s an interesting point. HOWEVER, unless you have failure rate data, I’m going to unfortunately say that your logic is baseless and irrelevant.

Both of you: you either have the data or you don’t. Chrysler is usually at the bottom of the barrel in CR reliability surveys, but I take those surveys with a big ‘ol grain of salt. If CR were our litmus for reliability, name a more reliable sports car than the WRX at that price point. I think you’ll find they all have their failure modes and none seem to be immune from people complaining about this or that about each online.

EJ != FA.

The high-rev’ing N/A FA D-4S dual-injection != FADIT.

Leave a wrx or sti stock, and it typically wont have issues. Even super mild bolt ons or a tune to clean up the trash throttle mapping and lag wont hurt them.

 

[dareo]

So the engines are prone to failure and that in turn drives their value? Seems contradictory to me.

Either way, the problem is Subaru has a community that is huge on mods. So without cutting that all out and just focusing on stock vehicles it's disingenuous to gauge its reliability as a whole when modding and tuning have so many variables, far more than in how someone simply treats a stock vehicle.

It would not surprise me if the WRX/STI has a higher engine failure rate than a Corolla, Jetta, Passat, etc. But it also probably has the highest modification rate on the market today, so how much of that would contribute to it?

Any vehicle with higher than average engine problem rate shows up in higher priced used engines. The people selling used auto parts know their business, the demand level, and charge accordingly. The Chrysler 2.7 liter V6 fiasco of the 2000s had those engines going for a fortune. My friend had one, perfect Mobil 1 maintenance and it still blew up at 80k and he got it done under the 100k warranty at the time. People that did not buy during that short lived longer warranty had to pay a TON for a new, rebuilt, or a still good junk yard engine. Cars that rarely, if ever, need replacement engines, those engines just sit forever and get prices cut. Something like a non turbo Accord engine can last forever if you don't take out the oil pan with a rock or suffer a quick lube oopsy. That lack of demand leads the parts dealers to sell them for whatever is worth shipping out an engine, about $500-800, and they could be shelving that part for years before geting that.

I'm only critical of the WRX because as a presitigious Japanese brand we really expect a lot. They seem to offer about industry average quality where we are used to exceptional japanese quality. When my golf breaks i will be like WOW you made it this long?? I'm gonna expect it.

I think there will be TONS of premature turbo engine vehicle problems alongside the CVT transmissions in the coming years. Things just not built to the same last forever standards. it is last for the warranty, have light weight parts for fuel economy, and by the time it blows up they hope to be selling electrics.

Everybody mods the WRX because its so easy to turn up a turbo car and its such a sporty chassis to work off of. Subaru, if they wanted, could have made the engine a lot beefier to stand up to the abuse. It is sold at a power level that is just fun enough to want a little more. It's the sports car equivalent of a free sample from a drug dealer. They are in the money making business and that is really just selling a bunch of crossovers to their [stereotypical subaru buyer] market and we should be glad they make any performance at all anymore.

Are the failures due to the mods, the drivers, or the design? Some combination of the three is my guess, mostly allocated to the drivers, then the mods, then the build quality last.

 

[555]

Any vehicle with higher than average engine problem rate shows up in higher priced used engines. The people selling used auto parts know their business, the demand level, and charge accordingly. The Chrysler 2.7 liter V6 fiasco of the 2000s had those engines going for a fortune. My friend had one, perfect Mobil 1 maintenance and it still blew up at 80k and he got it done under the 100k warranty at the time. People that did not buy during that short lived longer warranty had to pay a TON for a new, rebuilt, or a still good junk yard engine. Cars that rarely, if ever, need replacement engines, those engines just sit forever and get prices cut. Something like a non turbo Accord engine can last forever if you don't take out the oil pan with a rock or suffer a quick lube oopsy. That lack of demand leads the parts dealers to sell them for whatever is worth shipping out an engine, about $500-800, and they could be shelving that part for years before geting that.

I'm only critical of the WRX because as a presitigious Japanese brand we really expect a lot. They seem to offer about industry average quality where we are used to exceptional japanese quality. When my golf breaks i will be like WOW you made it this long?? I'm gonna expect it.

I think there will be TONS of premature turbo engine vehicle problems alongside the CVT transmissions in the coming years. Things just not built to the same last forever standards. it is last for the warranty, have light weight parts for fuel economy, and by the time it blows up they hope to be selling electrics.

Everybody mods the WRX because its so easy to turn up a turbo car and its such a sporty chassis to work off of. Subaru, if they wanted, could have made the engine a lot beefier to stand up to the abuse. It is sold at a power level that is just fun enough to want a little more. It's the sports car equivalent of a free sample from a drug dealer. They are in the money making business and that is really just selling a bunch of crossovers to their [stereotypical subaru buyer] market and we should be glad they make any performance at all anymore.

Are the failures due to the mods, the drivers, or the design? Some combination of the three is my guess, mostly allocated to the drivers, then the mods, then the build quality last.

So you're not looking forward to the 2022 WRX, or are you? Either of you care to weigh in?

 

[dareo]

So you're not looking forward to the 2022 WRX, or are you? Either of you care to weigh in?

Oh i certainly am. Moving the displacement up will help tremendously. If my golf got totalled i would be right there test driving and considering it.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Bring back the Forester XT

 

[OppositeLocK]

Any vehicle with higher than average engine problem rate shows up in higher priced used engines. The people selling used auto parts know their business, the demand level, and charge accordingly. The Chrysler 2.7 liter V6 fiasco of the 2000s had those engines going for a fortune. My friend had one, perfect Mobil 1 maintenance and it still blew up at 80k and he got it done under the 100k warranty at the time. People that did not buy during that short lived longer warranty had to pay a TON for a new, rebuilt, or a still good junk yard engine. Cars that rarely, if ever, need replacement engines, those engines just sit forever and get prices cut. Something like a non turbo Accord engine can last forever if you don't take out the oil pan with a rock or suffer a quick lube oopsy. That lack of demand leads the parts dealers to sell them for whatever is worth shipping out an engine, about $500-800, and they could be shelving that part for years before geting that.

I'm only critical of the WRX because as a presitigious Japanese brand we really expect a lot. They seem to offer about industry average quality where we are used to exceptional japanese quality. When my golf breaks i will be like WOW you made it this long?? I'm gonna expect it.

I think there will be TONS of premature turbo engine vehicle problems alongside the CVT transmissions in the coming years. Things just not built to the same last forever standards. it is last for the warranty, have light weight parts for fuel economy, and by the time it blows up they hope to be selling electrics.

Everybody mods the WRX because its so easy to turn up a turbo car and its such a sporty chassis to work off of. Subaru, if they wanted, could have made the engine a lot beefier to stand up to the abuse. It is sold at a power level that is just fun enough to want a little more. It's the sports car equivalent of a free sample from a drug dealer. They are in the money making business and that is really just selling a bunch of crossovers to their [stereotypical subaru buyer] market and we should be glad they make any performance at all anymore.

Are the failures due to the mods, the drivers, or the design? Some combination of the three is my guess, mostly allocated to the drivers, then the mods, then the build quality last.

Yes, but with so many variables within all that, anything you say/conclude on is based on pure speculation. You can't simply lump "design deficiencies" with "faults from mods" as if the two have any sort of equivalency. It's a false comparison, false analysis, and false conclusion.

As a stock vehicle, the WRX is not flawed in any way more than any other vehicle in its price range and class. I say that based on the fact that there is no evidence for it. There is no teardown showing that any part of it is deficient under factory-spec use. Any deficiency "analyses" are solely in terms of how far one can take it (that's why they all say, this is good for up to 350hp,, should sustain boost levels up to 25psi, etc.).

Which from a general consumer reliability perspective, is worthless. That's like lumping all Diesel engines with "coal rollers".

Either way, reliability is a big part of resale value and we know Subarus have some of the highest residuals on the market. Especially the WRX. So if reliability was so blatantly bad, we wouldn't see that. And to me, that data point trumps all other "lick finger and get direction of wind" approaches.

That's as much as I have to say on this.

 

[skrypj]

Do they still mount the turbo under the motor like the 2010+ LGT with the short header?

The ultra long rear mount turbo on the '05 to 09 LGT was crazy. That was half the reason they were laggy I think. You had a mile and a half of manifold to fill with exhaust before the turbine saw it.

 

[Pew]

The high-rev’ing N/A FA D-4S dual-injection != FADIT.

My mistake, I assumed the FA in the ae86 twins was the same one+turbo in the WRX. The valvetrain issue was with the N/A FA20. Glass transmissions still stands although the trans seems to stand up to at least FBO+Tune.

 

[UG_Passat]

I've helped a few people hop their WRX's up. Driven some that moved pretty good.

I could never get over the fact that the Subaru boxer engine sounds like an I-4 only firing on two cylinders...

That's mainly a EJ-series thing

The FA motor went with equal length exhaust headers, so it sounds like every other modern turbo 4 banger.

But the STI still sounds like a Subaru, since it retained the EJ-series motor

 

[OppositeLocK]

Looks like the reveal got delayed. Someone pulled some pics, it's looking really good!



https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-subaru-wrx-sti-teaser-preview/

 

[skrypj]

Looks a lot like a Legacy. Why do they still do the TMIC? Weight distribution? or is it a fake hoodscoop.

 

[555]

Looks a lot like a Legacy. Why do they still do the TMIC? Weight distribution? or is it a fake hoodscoop.

Shorter pipes/hoses with top mount.
While it is higher than front mounted IC, probably better than hanging that weight off the nose
Front mounted IC is more prone to damage from rocks etc and minor accidents.
Top mounted IC has the disadvantage of perpetual heat soak.

 

[dareo]

Yes, but with so many variables within all that, anything you say/conclude on is based on pure speculation. You can't simply lump "design deficiencies" with "faults from mods" as if the two have any sort of equivalency. It's a false comparison, false analysis, and false conclusion.

As a stock vehicle, the WRX is not flawed in any way more than any other vehicle in its price range and class. I say that based on the fact that there is no evidence for it. There is no teardown showing that any part of it is deficient under factory-spec use. Any deficiency "analyses" are solely in terms of how far one can take it (that's why they all say, this is good for up to 350hp,, should sustain boost levels up to 25psi, etc.).

Which from a general consumer reliability perspective, is worthless. That's like lumping all Diesel engines with "coal rollers".

Either way, reliability is a big part of resale value and we know Subarus have some of the highest residuals on the market. Especially the WRX. So if reliability was so blatantly bad, we wouldn't see that. And to me, that data point trumps all other "lick finger and get direction of wind" approaches.

That's as much as I have to say on this.

I never said design deficiency, and it is built to handle normal driving with factory parts. What it is NOT is overbuilt in any way. Maybe they like selling those $2k shortblocks to those who get denied warranty based on mods. Subaru certainly would know how to make it stronger if they chose to do so. Not like those aftermarket $4k blocks have any proprietary or patented technology.

The resale is fantastic on their whole line. Great for current owners looking to upgrade to that new model. I sure would if i had one.

 

[skrypj]

Shorter pipes/hoses with top mount.
While it is higher than front mounted IC, probably better than hanging that weight off the nose
Front mounted IC is more prone to damage from rocks etc and minor accidents.
Top mounted IC has the disadvantage of perpetual heat soak.

Yeah that was always the issue. Its right on the engine so when you are not moving or going slow its getting an updraft. I brought mine to the dragstrip once or twice and the IAT's were through the roof by the time I got through the staging lanes and it was my turn. It probably didnt even cool off by the time I got down the track.

The front mount thing is weird to me though. All of the Ford Ecoboost vehicles are front mount. All of them are mounted right in front of or under the radiator and damage does not seem to be a common issue.

The only thing I could think of is that maybe because the engine is already hanging out in front of the tires, they don't wanna be throwing more weight out there. They are already 60%/40% F/R

 

[gathermewool]

Looks like the reveal got delayed. Someone pulled some pics, it's looking really good!



https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-subaru-wrx-sti-teaser-preview/

Stupid black plastic cladding a la Wilderness Edition. Yuck

 

[555]

Yeah that was always the issue. Its right on the engine so when you are not moving or going slow its getting an updraft. I brought mine to the dragstrip once or twice and the IAT's were through the roof by the time I got through the staging lanes and it was my turn. It probably didnt even cool off by the time I got down the track.

The front mount thing is weird to me though. All of the Ford Ecoboost vehicles are front mount. All of them are mounted right in front of or under the radiator and damage does not seem to be a common issue.

The only thing I could think of is that maybe because the engine is already hanging out in front of the tires, they don't wanna be throwing more weight out there. They are already 60%/40% F/R

The length of that engine is short. The diameter of two cylinders, the pulleys and a little more. It's not an Audi! Flame suit on.

 

[skrypj]

The length of that engine is short. The diameter of two cylinders, the pulleys and a little more. It's not an Audi! Flame suit on.

Still though, they managed to figure out how to get the weight distribution to be worse than my F150.

 

[OppositeLocK]

I never said design deficiency, and it is built to handle normal driving with factory parts. What it is NOT is overbuilt in any way. Maybe they like selling those $2k shortblocks to those who get denied warranty based on mods. Subaru certainly would know how to make it stronger if they chose to do so. Not like those aftermarket $4k blocks have any proprietary or patented technology.

The resale is fantastic on their whole line. Great for current owners looking to upgrade to that new model. I sure would if i had one.

Exactly, and I think few if any engines are overbuilt today. They're all designed to perform reliability within spec. Just the nature of the game.

It makes more sense to build to a price point that will give as many people as possible the chance to buy it, than overbuild it so tuners can extract more performance out of it.

Gone are the 2JZ days.

 

[OppositeLocK]

Still though, they managed to figure out how to get the weight distribution to be worse than my F150.

60/40 is not automatically worse than 50/50 or 40/60. What matters is how it all comes together, total weight, drivetrain bias, centre of gravity....

A front-biased vehicle is less eager to turn in but is in turn more stable. If you've ever driven it at higher speeds in inclement weather you'd know the feeling I'm talking about.

That's the beauty of engineering, you have to look at the total package. A Civic Type R is 62.5/37.5 and looking at just that figure it sounds bad, yet it was 4 seconds faster on the Nurburgring than a Porsche 718.

 

[skrypj]

60/40 is not automatically worse than 50/50 or 40/60. What matters is how it all comes together, total weight, drivetrain bias, centre of gravity....

A front-biased vehicle is less eager to turn in but is in turn more stable. If you've ever driven it at higher speeds in inclement weather you'd know the feeling I'm talking about.

That's the beauty of engineering, you have to look at the total package. A Civic Type R is 62.5/37.5 and looking at just that figure it sounds bad, yet it was 4 seconds faster on the Nurburgring than a Porsche 718.

Like I said in numerous posts, it was very apparent in my own subaru.

And I can tell you which one I would rather drive around Nurburgring regardless of which is the fastest, and its not the FWD.